Wednesday, January 24, 2007

Ruzan Shah, in spite of Modi-bashers like you, Muslims will establish a good rapport with RSS


Wednesday, January 24, 2007
Ruzan Shah, in spite of Modi-bashers like you, Muslims will establish a good rapport with RSS
Dear Ruzan Shah,
Talking about certificates, let me refer you to Arnold Toynbee, considered by many as one of the greatest historians and who was not from the RSS. He has certified that Muslims are either an intolerant majority or a turbulent minority.

About Gujarat violence, may I remind you about its genesis? The people of Mahatma Gandhi's own country decided to give non-violence a go-by when Muslims burnt to death a compartment full of pilgrims returning from Ayodhya. Do not for a moment think that Narendra Modi arranged it. If Hindus with state powers were to organize riots, Muslims would become a micro-minority in India.

The RSS is not bothered about your hate for them. RSS is engaged in uniting Indians in the name of Bharath Mata and they are not expecting people like you who think Allah has ordered them not to sing Vande Mataram to know anything about patriotism.

Muslims will eventually see the sanity of demonstrating loyalty to India by defeating pro-Pakistan forces in India. A time will come before long when Muslims would on their own volition hand over terrorist elements to the law and from then onwards RSS would be proud to say long live Indian Muslims. It would only be natural considering that RSS is first and foremost a patriotic organization. So in spite of people like you who harp on the lie that Modi organized a pogrom of Muslims in Gujarat, the Muslim community will establish a good rapport with the RSS.
6:33:29 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Comments
RADHAKRISHANAN.C Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:11:11 PM
Well said Venugopal.That NDTV allows these people,air their views,is surprising.These blogs by the minorities are provocative and will cause untold hardship to those silent minorities,who are not for provocation,but want to live amicably.Earlier the fools are able to understand the better for them.Otherwise their days are numbered.
RADHAKRISHANAN.C Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:31:09 PM
Well said Venugopal.That NDTV allows these people,air their views,is surprising.These blogs by the minorities are provocative and will cause untold hardship to those silent minorities,who are not for provocation,but want to live amicably.Earlier the fools are able to understand the better for them.Otherwise their days are numbered.
jj Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:49:29 AM
there are many muslims in the bjp like arif mohammed khanmuqtar abbas naqvisyed shahnawaz hussainamong the muslim intellectualmohammed currimbhoy chagla was a great admirer of the RSSYOU CAN WAKE UP THOSE WHO ARE REALLY SLEEPINGBUT YOU CANT WAKE UP THOSE WHO ARE REALLY ACTING
sage Friday, January 26, 2007 9:10:59 PM
when you give examples of others, be little like them. you all muslims survive on hindus. so be indian and try not be antinational like most of you are. do not try to harm india by living in india.
muneerudeen Friday, January 26, 2007 10:44:03 PM
I havenot read what Ruzan Shah wrote -BUT if RSS /BJP & Modi can achieve anything by inciting religious violence within INDIA their Rath Yatras and other trips to places like Kerala and distribute trishuls as momentos-where can there be any rapproachment between RSS and NDF - Venuji ???

Sunday, January 21, 2007

To Patriotic Muslim - Do not question the wisdom of Allah? - updated


Sunday, January 21, 2007
To Patriotic Muslim - Do not question the wisdom of Allah?

I had commented the following in response to Jumbo Jumbo's blog on the fundamental difference between Islam and Sanatana Dharma on Sat, Jan 20 at 12:34:56 AM
K.Venugopal Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:01:29 PM
I have heard a Muslim speaker say that Mohammad himself always existed and he was with Allah even before creation. One message for mankind at the beginning would have been enough for all mankind, when it is said that Adam was the first prophet. Why did Allah have to send messengers after messengers? Was it that the people refused to hear Him or because His words could not stand the test of time? If it is claimed that Islam was there even before Mohammad, does it mean 1. that Islam was functioning then without the Quran? 2. that Islam failed (and therefore Mohammad had to be sent) because there was no Quran in those times? 3. or Allah failed in not sending the Quran with Prophet Adam himself? Anyway, now that we have the perfect book of the Quran, why is not Islam working? The majority of people do not accept Islam. Does it mean Allah would be forced to send another messenger and a new Quran? It would not be morally right for Him to judge the people without first having properly instructed mankind with the proper scripture – one scripture acceptable to all mankind - would it? Or does Allah use the yardstick of only what is acceptable to Him and not mankind?
Mr. Patrotic Muslim commented in turn the following:
patriotic muslim Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:30:04 PM
Venu bhai,There was a huge period of gap between Adam (pbuh) and Noah (pbuh). The first signs of idolatory started during the period of Noah (pbuh). Thats when Noah was inspired by Gabriel to build the ark. Quran says in every age we have sent the messengers to give glad tidings to the people. Even Noah's son was among the disbelievers and paid the price in the floods. Yes you are right, people refused to hear the messengers and continued their blasphemy.Yes, Islam was functioning without the Holy Quran. Every messenger of God received revelations like Psalms, Torah, Bible and in every age we had disbelievers just like now where the majority of the population disbelievs.The Holy Quran is the compilation of all that happened before Prophet Mohammed plus more. It is said in the Quran that there will not be any more messengers or revelations from God till Day of Judgement.Quran contains so many issues zakath to poor, hajj, marriage, divorce, adultery, respect to parents, striving in the way of God etc..When just Adam and Eve were on earth, what purpose will the whole Quran serve? Please ponder over your question.God is God, the Creator, the Sustainer, everything...Who are we dumb human beings who are always dependent on every little thing in life to question the wisdom of the Creator!

In response to Patriotic Muslim’s comment, I offer the following comments:

Dear Patriotic Muslim,

We should not curb our quest of truth by saying, "Who are we dumb human beings who are always dependent on every little thing in life to question the wisdom of the Creator?". This is a modest attitude and in this aspect it is praiseworthy. "To question God" does not mean the arrogance to challenge God, but the sincerity to quest till we get at the truth. I think even the Quran enjoins us to use our intelligence in pursuing matters. So let us not assume the slavish posture of not questioning the master. In any case, Muslims do not take the same position vis-à-vis the Gods and scriptures of other religions – without even a study of them you are ready to say it is all gibberish or out of date, are you not?

If you say that when only Adam and Eve were living, the Quran served no purpose because it deals with matters pertaining to huge populations and complex issues, then surely the present age, when the world population is many times more than it was at the time of Mohammad and infinitely more complex, requires at least an updated version of the Quran, does it not? Why make do with one meant for the desert Bedouins of the 7th century?

Adam and Eve had in them what we also have to solve our individual problems and that is our consciousness. It is the pursuit of our greater consciousness and recordings of its experiences that has given to us the legacy of all our scriptures including the Quran and Adi Granth. Muslims should give up their efforts at foisting the Quran upon all mankind with spurious arguments of a one-and-only Allah, worship and idolatry. I think there is a huge hypocrisy vis-à-vis the meaning of worship and idolatry in Islam. We need to have a separate discussion on this.

Dear Learner,

You say there were many books sent out by Allah including the Bible but you also say that they have become corrupt. That is, no book has remained uncorrupt except the Quran. It would have been OK if the Quran is seen by everyone as a perfect book. In its fundamentals itself it appears flawed. For instance when Allah says there is no god but Him, isn't Allah able to understand that the intention behind all prayers are that it reaches an absolute force? How can any human being pray to any force other than Allah because Allah, according to the Quran, is the only absolute force? Then why did Allah allow his messenger to destroy idols and idol worshippers? On the other hand if Allah wanted everyone to pray in a certain way, then that way would have been the way followed by Adam and Eve and all their descendents since. But it appears that the way of prayers that Muslims have adopted today is a new one initiated by Mohammad and not anything described in the Quran.

Then Allah says that Mohammad is his final messenger. In spite of the fact that the message itself is intact, many different schools of thought erupted immediately after Mohammad’s death. So the finality of the final message did not last even one generation.

My whole point is that Muslims ought to practice Islam to the best of the ability without trying to claim that it is the only true religion. It is nothing but one of the innumerable expressions of man's religious experiences that will continue to flower as long as man continues to live.

3:11:20 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (7) Uncategorized
Comments
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:44:50 PM
There are many Prophets who were sent with the book.I will name them,Noah, Abraham,Moses,David, Jesus and many more which only Allah knows.One basic thing remains the same, in the teaching of every book that is there is no God except Allah. and the other part was according to the Prophet existed at the time. like at the time of Noah, The kalma was "There is no God except Allah and Noah is the messenger of Allah."Like wise in the times of moses "There is no God except Allah and moses is the messenger of Allah."
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:51:05 PM
You know one more thing venu,The books which were left behind by Prophets were changed by the people who came after them on the instigation of Satan.and the books lost their originality and true essence.and thats the reason why Allah had sent so many messenger after messenger with the book.One more thing my comments are being accept in reverse way that is the one i wrote first is being made the last. so read accordingly.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:51:34 PM
Venu,you did not know anything about Prophets and books revealed to them.And you also don't know about the contemperory nature of Islam.You know one thing the basic structure of Islam cannot be changed but keeping in view the changing scenario of the world there are some leverages being given by the Muftis(the decree givers)I can't explain you this in detail.
anindita Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:57:18 PM
A warm hi to both of u.....i think both of u need to realise one thing.Discussing whether Islam was working without the holy quran or not is not going to help you people anyhow.there are thousands of people who are dying because of these religious conflicts,thousands of orphans who have no clue at all about the religion to which they belong.lets think about them for a while and try and do something about it.dont waste time on these petty issues please, its a request.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:03:41 PM
Anindita, no one is forcing you to read, do or believe anything. You have the freedom to do what you want. Let others do what they want with their time so long as they don't steal from your time. What may be petty for you may be vital for others. In fact, I believe taking to the spiritual path would solve many of the problems you have listed.
senselessCritic Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:06:45 PM
This discussion is senseless. I agree with you Anindita. But who can wake up a person pretending to sleep. Dear Anindita, you are selling icecream to ESKIMOS. Best of luck to you. These guys will not understand the pain of orphaned children--whose parents fell to the gunfire of religion-fron KOSOVO TO KASHMIR TO GODHARA AND GUJRAT.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:16:12 PM
Dear Senseless Critic, The pain of orphaned children is tragic. The pain left in the wake of terrorism is no less real, where anybody can be caught up. Narrow-mindedness of creed and intolerance of others' opinions lead to much violence. Let's create a situation where we can live and let live.

K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:50:32 PM
Dear Learner, I've commented on your comments but could not put it on the comments slot. Therefore please look up my main blog.

Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:05:58 PM
Adam and eve offered prayers definitely. But the way in which they offered we don't know.they may have offered the way as Prophet(SAWS)did.and yes you are correct the way how to offer prayer is not mentioned in Quran as Prophet has showed the people how to offer learning from Arch Angel Gabriel.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:25:02 PM
Dear Learner, Can you enlighten me on the relationship between Mohammad and Arch Angel Gabriel? Did not Allah directly give the revelations to Mohammad or was it always through Gabriel? Was Gabriel someone whom only Mohammad saw?
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:32:04 PM
Dear Learner, When I said the different schools of thought what I meant was the Shia, Sunni Sufi, Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi, Maliki etc. I must confess I do not know in what way these schools differ except that between Shias and Sunnis it is a major difference and Sufis have thoughts that go beyond Islam.

Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:33:34 PM
Elaborate on different school of thought erupted please. i did not get you. Please explain. Then i will answer you, based on your explaination.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:34:55 PM
Please look at the bottom of my blog for the answer as to schools of thought.
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:10:38 PM
All the messengers spoke through Arch Angel Gabriel..Only one messenger has spoken directly to God i.e Prophet Moses (pbuh) on Mt.Sinai (when the 10 commandments or the Torah wa revealed)...direct doesn't mean face to face..there was a barrier of light..Details can be seen in Chpater 20 Surah Ta-Ha..Mohammed (pbuh) always received the revealtions through Gabriel even during Meraaj (ascension to the heavens)..Gabriel came in different forms..many hadiths to this effect are there..He came as an old man. young person etc..Prophet's wives and companions saw and enquired and Prophet replied that it was Gabriel.
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:21:35 PM
The 4 schools of thought i.e Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hambali..they are same..beleive in the Quran and Prophet's sunnah...The diff was in their interpretation of the hadiths and fatwas due to non availability of complete hadiths at that time as each one lived at a diff period of time, in diff part of the world..They have said"If you find a better fatwa based on hadith then throw our fatwa against the wall"...there was no diff in their beliefs..They were all muslims and true believers.
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:29:11 PM
Reg. Shiism ..they have deviated beliefs...they give more importance to Ali (4th caliph) than the Prophet...They accuse the Prophet of deliberately hiding verses about Ali (if the Prophet wanted he could have hidden the verse where God commands him to marry the divorced wife of his adopted son but did not do so), they dont believe in the companions or sahaba or the prophet's wives..They have misguided principles...All the deviated sects like Ahmediyas, Ismailis, Bohras, Qadhiyanis etc are off shoots of shiism...They dont follow the Quran and the Sunnah...That is why there is lots of misinterpretated lietrature abt Islam and abuse by people like you becoz no one studies the source..all go after the deviations to blaspheme!
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:37:06 PM
The basic tenets of Islamic faith other than belief in One God are belief in his angels, all his Prophets (from Adam to Mohammed - some 124000 between them), all his revealed books - 4 mentioned in Quran by name but God says that to every nation and tribe We have sent messengers and revelations.All the prophets believed in the same One God and deplored idol worship... Only 26 prophets mentioned by name in the Quran...many are there unnamed...Rama, Krishna anybody COULD HAVE BEEN the messengers of God, we cant say for sure as it is not confirmed in the Quran... Mohammed is the last and Adam the first...Whoever the Prophet all worshipped the ONE TRUE GOD and abhorred IDOL WORSHIP which is nothing but man made blasphemy against the CREATOR!Vedas too abhor idol worship and asks for beilef in ONE GOD who doesn't have parents, children, wives or images!
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:44:56 PM
and finally like I said earlier, Man is helpless and immaterial in fron of the creator...Man is totally dependent on every materialistic thing in this world for his survival whereas the Almighty doesn't need any of us...Even if we blaspheme or dont worship or believe NOT A SINGLE ASPECT OF GOD will change..IT we who need God and not vice versa...
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:46:22 PM
Imagine if God decides to finish the earth and annihilate every living creature or matter..then who will be there to say that some thing called MAN ever lived on the face of the earth or that 2 persons called Venu and Muslim were discussing in the blogs?
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:11:54 PM
I think patriotic Muslim has answered very well everything what venu has questioned.But i will add some more points here.The difference between shafai and hanafi and hanbali is very minute.Actually everyone mentioned above followed the sunnah of the Prophet. One example i would like to give is that in the prayer(namaaz) the shafai school of thought raise hands prior to going in the ruku(bowing)but hanafi school of thought don't do that. Initially Prophet used to do it and later on he left that thing completely but shafai followed it and other didnot followed it because prophet left it. and shafai thought he would not leave anything which Prophet has done. So there is no sin in doing it or not doing it.so these are the minor differences.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:02:17 PM
Regarding loyalty towards allah, it is fine if you do not worship any other god but allah. Now, are you not supposed to be loyal to your own country, your motherland, your society, your nation, your family?
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:05:24 PM
Dear P Muslim,Many prophets got revealation from god directly, like god speaking through their tounge. So don't say only moses got it directly. Also, nobody saw gabriel except muhammad, so your comment that many people saw him is not correct.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:05:50 PM
Shiism is a political religion.It founder is Abdullah ibne saba.A yemini jew who embraced islam when yemen came under islamic rule. and he on the face has embraced islam but not from his heart. so to put a divide in the Muslims (phoot daal ne ke liye) he unjustly started spreading hatred against the democratically elected caliphs and biasedly sided hazrat Ali. He had no love for Ali but to create nuisance in the Muslim world he did that.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:14:12 PM
Muslim, you wrote:"Man is helpless and immaterial in fron of the creator"I agree with that. But the same creator has given us brain and logic. Being a belieber you were not given a choice to ask even a single question about your religion or any other religion and by birth you are a muslim (in the sense that your up bringing was in muslim family). But we nonmuslims have a choice to look into all the religion and choose whatever appears to be a true religion. In this regard, we can ask questions about religion.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:23:17 PM
Nobody here is denying THE CREATOR but specially Venu and me are asking about validity of islam being the only true religion. Is it possible to achieve mercy and love of the god by doing good deeds and by being a betterhuman? or by only being a practising muslim? that is the question. I hope venu would agree with me.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:41:13 PM
In order to make sure that muhammad was the last prophet, we have to validate the authenticity of quran. If that is prooved to be word of allah, I have no problem in coming to the right path. The simple test is quran should not have a single error because god can not err.
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 1:55:50 AM
Prayer and Practices for the Muslim is from the HAdeeths of the prophet and Hadeeths Qudsi is reported to be the direct words of Allah to the prophet - with regard to the social and physical obligations of a muslim.That does not mean that Quran is less or more important. They both go together-Just like FOOD & WATER !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 1:57:18 AM
Venu !It was Charles Darwin ( a Human) who said that man came from the Apes ! So Why cant a Prophet tell its people that Allah - A creator - is Omnipresent. In fact a new study disproves darwind theorey in USA and a 6000 year history is traced from ADAM & EVE till the present. .
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:06:05 AM
Infi ! I dont want to call you infidel anymore ! QURAN has no errors-we belive-and its upto us to verify it by learning it deeply along with the Haddeths-Figh (Islamic Jurisprudence) You cannot become a surgeon by doing MBBS-you got to do MD ! So go deep into it and you will see what we dont see ! Insha Allah . To err is HUMAN and we all make mistakes ! SO you learn first hand and I am sure all your doubts will disappear !I being a Muslim- am still learning- So no one is perfect here !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:06:33 AM
Infi ! I dont want to call you infidel anymore ! QURAN has no errors-we belive-and its upto us to verify it by learning it deeply along with the Haddeths-Figh (Islamic Jurisprudence) You cannot become a surgeon by doing MBBS-you got to do MD !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:08:26 AM
Anindita & Sensless Critic !A debate is good ON whatever we can do something about. Yes Orphans-killings- poor- destitute-hunger-all this will linger on and so will Religion & GOD ALMIGHTY. Tahts the way we were born and thats the way we will all die ! BUT dont you agree -this debate is any day better than Shilpa-Judy - Noida-Cannibals-Politician-Corruption etc.Better than selling ice creams to the Eskimos-I am sure !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:15:46 AM
Prayer and Practices for the Muslim is from the HAdeeths of the prophet and Hadeeths Qudsi is reported to be the direct words of Allah to the prophet - with regard to the social and physical obligations of a muslim.That does not mean that Quran is less or more important. They both go together-Just like FOOD & WATER !
Infidel Monday, January 22, 2007 2:16:01 AM
muneer, thanks for your comments on other blogs.Please confirm you mean "GOD IS OMNIPRESENT"
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:25:32 AM
Allah is OMNIPRESNT- Everywhere HE wishes ! BUT NOT where you wish HIM to be ! HE sees and knows ALL. IN fact HE lends you a helping hand whenever you do good ! Comments are getting posted OUT OF TURN !
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 7:06:53 PM
Dear Infidel, When you said "But we non-Muslims have a choice to look into all the religions and choose whatever appears to be a true religion", there is a catch there. If anyone chooses Islam, then, like Abhimanyu, they would be trapped in the Chakravyuha called Islam! You know they dislike apostates. So in the sane order of things, Islam should convert to Hinduism for freedom of religions.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 7:11:23 PM
Dear Muneerka, Omnipresent means 'present everywhere at the same time', not 'present everywhere He wishes'. Is Allah Omnipresent?
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 7:17:55 PM
Dear Patriotic Muslim, You say, "All the messengers spoke through Arch Angel Gabriel. Only one messenger has spoken directly to God i.e Prophet Moses (pbuh)". Do you mean Mohammad never spoke to Allah? Please clarify.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:19:37 PM
Dear Muneerka, When you say the Quran and the Hadeedths are like food and water, you are saying that Quran without the Hadeedths are incomplete and vice versa but both of them together are complete. Does this mean that God partnered with Mohammad in authoring his bestseller instruction manual to mankind? Allah abhors partnership.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:23:38 PM
Dear Muneerka, Your claim that "QURAN has no errors" is not an unique claim. All believers believe so about their scriptures. So what’s new?
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:43:05 PM
Dear Muneerka, Your saying, "So go deep into it [Quran] and you will see what we don't see!” Let me tell you one thing I see which you apparently don't yet see. According to me "La ilaha illallah" which you would see as "there is no god but Allah" I see, going deeper, as "there is nothing but Allah". I make bold to say that the erroneous interpretation of the words "La ilaha illallah" by Mohammad and its due acceptance by Muslims is the most grievous hurt caused to the cause of spiritualism in world history. I believe Islam will in due course self-destruct merely for the misinterpretation of this single Tahil. But not to worry, there are Sufis who understand it as, “There is nothing to worship except Allah.” This, I believe, is nearer the truth.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:52:07 PM
Dear Muneerka, Do you believe that man has only a 6000 year history from ADAM & EVE till the present? What does the Quran say? If I understand correctly, Darwin never said that man came from monkeys. He talked of an intermediary species that has vanished. This is called the missing link. Maybe the whole jigsaw puzzle will fall in place if and when this missing link is found and we may not ridicule Darwin after all.

Loyalty to Allah


Sunday, January 21, 2007
Loyalty to Allah
Dear Ruzan Shah,
When you say there is no country which totally follows Islamic laws, the question arises, why not, particularly when there are many 100% Muslim countries? Is the royal family in Saudi Arabia illegitimate in the eyes of Islam? If so, why are the Muslims permitting them to control the holy shrine of Mecca? Shouldn’t Muslims focus their terrorism on the Saudi Royal family, instead of carrying out such acts in India where Muslims enjoy all the rights of the majority and some more?

You keep talking about loyalty vis-a-visa Allah without realising loyalty is a concept that makes sense when there is more than one of the same type to which you can be loyal. For instance we would want Indians to be loyal to India because there is always the possibility that at least some of them could be loyal to Pakistan. In the case of Allah, to whom else can you be loyal when according to Islam there is no one else like Allah?
5:05:45 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Comments
ignoramus Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:54:47 PM
who is allah?
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:05:45 PM
Further, Ruzan, please do not say Islam believes in universal brotherhood. Islam only believes in the brotherhood of the believers, that is, believers in Islam. That is why they allow only Muslims to Mecca.You have quoted well from the Bible, but unfortunately Islam does not allow you to seek the truth, it only expects you to follow the truth it claims to have set out in the Quran.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:27:56 PM
Venu, the other thing towards which a person can be loyal is towards his vims and fancies.So Islam wants its followers to be loyal to Allah only and not to some of his wishes which are against the rules and regulations of Islam.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:31:26 PM
There are lot of terrorist attacks which took place in Saudi Arabia. you may not be aware of it because media hype is not given to those attacks as it is given to the attacks in UK and USA. There is lot of Anger against the saudi govt.But it is not manifested in open.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:32:52 PM
Dear Learner, Loyalty is a word that cannot be used for things like whims and fancies. Maybe by using the English word 'loyal' we are not expressing the exact relationship Allah expects from Man. Maybe in Arabic they have the more appropriate word. Do locate the word and write on it. Are you sympathetic to the terrorists who are against the Saudi government?

Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:32:17 PM
I am not sympathetic to the terrorist who are against the saudi government.I have just answered your querry that there are terrorist attacks which happened in saudi arabia.and the resentment against the govt is rising by the day.

Friday, January 19, 2007

Of gods and views, waves and oceans


Thursday, January 18, 2007
Of gods and views, waves and oceans.
Islam’s and Hinduism’s view on God might be understood using the analogy of the ocean and the waves. In a moment of separation:

1. One wave says there is only one ocean and the wave is eternally separate from it (Islam).
2. Another says there is only the ocean and the wave’s destiny is to merge in it (Advaita).
3. Yet another says there is no ocean, only waves. (the Atheists).
4. And still another says there may be both the waves and the ocean, but so what? (the
Agnostics).
5. And then there is the wave which says there are many oceans (popular Hinduism).

The permutations and combination as to the relationship between the waves and the ocean are numberable. According to Hinduism, all are right, depending on their perspective. Islam on the other hand would say that only the first view is correct. I wouldn’t say Islam’s view is wrong, but I might not be wrong in saying that Islam is not open to viewing on wider perspectives. This has had its implications, leading to the exclusive religion that Islam has come to be while Hinduism has become an inclusive culture.

I conceed that the above analogy may be too simplistic or even errorenous. But as far as trying to understand the subject goes, it might be valid.

11:07:14 AM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (2) Uncategorized
Comments
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 12:00:56 AM
Your Simplistic analogy is OK for a different time. When man did not have any previous people / community / faiths/religion to compare.Today it is a different story and ISLAM is like pure drinking water-NOT the saline sea Water-Or the polluted water of the Ganges ! And we have no more chance to purify the Ganga -or our souls !Its not doomsday_ BUT we are 5 minutes away from disaster !
Roger Friday, January 19, 2007 7:16:53 PM
yes Muneer, you and your thoughts are 5 minutes away from catstrophe. You are a big-mouthed loud-hailer of yourself and you talk about ISLAM as pure drinking water. You forget that it needs filteration plant to remove the germs of the waterborne diseases that have eaten up IRAQ, Middle East,Afghanistan,Pakistan,Chechaneya, Indonesia,Kosovo, Serbia and now spreading fast in India.

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 8:41:38 PM
Roger !Filteration with NUKES ? Sure-its the Doomsday clock being set at 5 minutes to midnight- Dont YOU watch CNN BBC FOX NEWS !Oh you may be busy filtering your own body and ridding it of germs ?? AIDS ??Best of Luck !
Roger Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:30:25 AM
Muneer! O, Muneer!! You are so obssessed with self-righteouness of your thouhts and religion that you are blinded to read the writing on the wall in the broad daylight with the sun being at 12 O' clock. You have dropped the shutters of your mind, eyes and the ears. You can not see, cannot read and cannot rationally think. You hanged SADDAM and blame BUSH. You kill hundreds in IRAQ and Kashmir and blame USA and INDIA. You , all of you, are just one minute away from disaster. wake up and open your eyes, it is a different dawn with new message.

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 8:41:38 PM
Roger !Filteration with NUKES ? Sure-its the Doomsday clock being set at 5 minutes to midnight- Dont YOU watch CNN BBC FOX NEWS !Oh you may be busy filtering your own body and ridding it of germs ?? AIDS ??Best of Luck !
Roger Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:30:25 AM
Muneer! O, Muneer!! You are so obssessed with self-righteouness of your thouhts and religion that you are blinded to read the writing on the wall in the broad daylight with the sun being at 12 O' clock. You have dropped the shutters of your mind, eyes and the ears. You can not see, cannot read and cannot rationally think. You hanged SADDAM and blame BUSH. You kill hundreds in IRAQ and Kashmir and blame USA and INDIA. You , all of you, are just one minute away from disaster. wake up and open your eyes, it is a different dawn with new message.
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:29:14 AM
ROGER !DEAF-DUMB & Mute- are the DISBELEIVERS ! OK so you belive in George Bush-Tony Blair & look what they did to IRAQ -Even their own people are against it ! Wait till you see what they have planned for IRAN.Just count your blessings that you are NOT in their NUKE range !Atlease WE have the One minute -BUT you dont !

Wednesday, January 17, 2007

Muslim scholarship hell-bent on proving that Hinduism is a monotheistic religion


Monday, January 15, 2007
Muslim scholarship hell-bent on proving that Hinduism is a Monotheistic religion.


This is a comment on Ajmal Rashid’s blog ISLAM AND HINDUISM: CONFLICT OR COINCIDE posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 at 3:07:51 PM. It is actually an article by Dr. Zakir Naik, which Ajmal Rashid has not acknowledged. This article was posted before and I’ve commented on it then. I am copying my comments then, with Dr. Naik’s thesis in blue.

I


Dr. Zakir Naik, starts by considering Hinduism as a single religion, whereas Hinduism is actually a confluence of innumerable religious expressions.Also, he calls Hinduism an Aryan religion. The religious and spiritual culture that is denoted by the word Hinduism, being expressions of the universal urge of man to delve within to his divine potential, is not restricted to any so-called race. It’s traditional name, Sanatana Dharma (the Eternal Harmony) is very indicative of the universality of Hinduism.These 33 crores Gods do not cause a Hindu disharmony while even a suggestion of a single other God besides Allah causes the Muslim great anguish. Why? Because the Hindu knows that these 33 crores Gods are only the expressions of the ultimate truth, which truth is not separate from our own potential. The Muslim on the other hand, is forbidden to express God except as he believes Allah has instructed him in the Quran. A God separate from him has to be submitted to, no questions asked. The Hindu is free to be creative and expressive, for he knows that in his fullest potential, he himself is that God. Tat Tvam Asi.
No learned Hindu would say that we SHOULD believe and worship only one God for the simple reason that he does not see the worshiping of many Gods out of sync with man’s pursuit of spirituality, which is the purpose of religion.
II

Dr. Naik’s differentiation between Islam and Hinduism as being just the ‘s’ is legitimate and honest. In Hindu parlance, Islam is a Dwaitic (dualistic) religion whereas Hinduism goes deeper to the Advaitic (non-dualistic) experience. When we say Islam is a Dwaitic religion, it is not to belittle Islam thereby. A vast majority of Hindus also celebrate dualism. And yet, all Hindus know that this is not the ultimate. The ultimate is merging in God. Islam does not go this deep (with the exception of the Sufis). It merely waits for God to judge everyone and dole out eternal punishments or rewards. The Hindus who are Dwaitic of course do not believe in a line up and judgement scenario. Why? Thanks to the sublime influence of Advaita among the masses of even Dwaitic Hindus, what with the teachings of Karma and rebirths.I like Dr. Naik’s saying that if we resolve the apostrophe ‘s’ problem, Hindus and Muslims can unite. However, I wish to tell him that Hindus and Muslims are disunited only because Islam insists that it is the only true religion and not because there is a difference of opinion on this or that. Hinduism celebrates differences of opinion, for they see it all as man’s various expressions. So let the Muslim believe that his religion is a great religion, that his scripture is God’s own words and that Muslims are the most blessed folks in the world. No harm in all that. We have a lot of Hindus who believe the same thing about their religions too. But Muslims must accept that other religions are also legitimate. Then and only then can there be a joint celebration of each others religion and thus real unity.

Hinduism has proved this historically. Take Vaishnavism and Shaivism. In the Islamic milieu, there would have been bloodbaths between the followers of Vishnu and Shiva. But look how they have amalgamated into one religious culture, so much so that outsiders would be surprised to know that they are actually two different religions with two different and distinct Gods, each God with his own set-up! And more surprising would be Shaktism, whose followers believe that God is actually a Goddess! And their followers do not even follow the Vedas. They follow the Tantric scriptures. So much difference and yet so much unity. That’s Hinduism. Unity in diversity.
III

The Holy Qur’an says, "Come to common terms as between us and you", which is the first term? -That we worship none but Allah, so lets come to common terms by analyzing the scripture of the Hindus and the Muslim.
Dr. Zakir Naik quotes the the Holy Qur’an to say “Come to common terms as between us and you”.How great. But the Islamic milieu has transformed it to mean, “Let there be a common ground by all means and let that common ground be Islam.”I. Bhagwad Geeta 7:20. The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagwad Geeta. Bhagwad Geeta mentions in Chapter 7, Verse 20, "Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires worship demigods" that is "Those who are materialistic, they worship demigods" i.e. besides the true God.
I wish to say that when the Bhagwad Geeta refers to demigods they only mean the reference point of a person who has not fully awoken to the truth of who he is. This is in consonance with the ultimate hallmark of Hinduism – that truth is one but the wise express it variously. A person who has not fully awoken to the spiritual truth is not a lesser person, just as a child is not a lesser person than a grown-up. So a materialist is he who has not fully awoken to his destiny and he will therefore worship God at his level. This is what is called ‘various expressions’. The Gita does not call a child stupid. But when the child does not grow-up, then the Gita says such a person is Baleshu – a childish person.
IV
II. Upanishad are also one of the sacred scriptures of the Hindus. In Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 6, Section 2, Verse 1 it is mentioned "He is one only without a second". Similar to what is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 1, "Say he is Allah one and only".
May I ask who is one without a second? Not a God who can be distinguished as being a Creator separate from his creation. In separation, there is a second. Only when everything is God (or when there is nothing, not even God – the shoonya concept of the Buddhists), is there one without a second.I wish to say that when the Quran enjoins to say that he is Allah one and only, it has reached only the penultimate Dwaitic situation of Hindu culture. The ultimate is the Advaitic situation, which the Sufis understand.
The Hindu believes everything is pervaded by God. So the Hindu takes a stone and chisels it to be the centre of divinity in his life and the life of the community. It is just like electricity being everywhere but requiring a bulb to bring the light to our sensory level.

V
III. In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 6, Verse 9 it is mentioned "Of him there is neither parents nor lord". "Of him there is no master in the world, no ruler, nor is there any mark of him. He is the cause, the lord of the lords of the sense organs; of him there is neither progenitor nor lord". Similar message is given in Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 3, "He begets not, nor is he begotten".
Absolutely. The Vedas here are talking of the undifferentiated state of Brahman, not the state of creator-created separation, where Ishwar or Allah or God and His creation come in.The Quran in similar verses is also talking of Allah in the Brahman state. The moment Allah creates, then he is no longer in the Brahman-state. Then he is in the Ishwar state (in Hindu parlance). This differentiation of Allah into two states, His state before creation and His state after creation is not clear in Arabic because the same word Allah is used in both before-creation state and after-creation state. Sanskrit however has used two different words for the before and after stages and thus the clarity on this in Hindu commentaries. (Brahman is not to be confused with Brahma the creator in mythical parlance.) Brahman is not the creator. Brahman is the substratum on which the drama of creation manifests and subsides in aeons of time.
VI
IV. "His form is not to be seen; no one sees him with the eye. Those who through heart and mind know him as abiding in the heart become immortal". Similar message is given in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Anam, Chapter 6, Verse 103, "No vision can grasp him. But his grasp is over all vision: he is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things".
The Vedic verse quoted above appears reflected picturesquely in the battlefield of Kurukshetra when Krishna displays his Vishva-roop to Arjuna.In both the above verses it will be noted that the speaker is not Brahman of the Vedas or Allah of the Quran. It is a Rishi who has reached the ultimate stage who is describing the state in the Vedas. Is it Mohammad who is saying the words quoted in the Quran? Or is it Allah telling Mohammad to proclaim thus? Please clarify.

V. In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 19 it is mentioned "There is no likeness of him whose name is great glory". Similar message is given in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 4, "And there is none like unto him". Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11 and also in Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11, "There is nothing whatever like unto him".

The curious thing about the two verses that were received in two different milieus is that in the case of the Veda the “He” still remains unknown and mysterious whereas in the Quran the “He” has a name – Allah. Proving once again that the Vedas are talking of the undifferentiated Brahman whereas the Quran is talking of the differentiated God, where the totality is differentiated between the creator and his creation.
We must bow humbly to all the scriptural verses quoted. How potent in force the verses are, both of the Vedas and the Quran. They are indeed mystical poetry. Very Hindu in fact. Hindu mystics talk like this.
VII
VI. It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 32, Verse "There is no image of Him." It further says as "He is unborn, He deserves our worship" "There is no image of him whose glory verily is great. He sustains within himself all luminous objects like the sun etc. may he not harm me, this is my prayer. As he is unborn, he deserves our worship".
This again is at the Brahman stage, a purely undifferentiated stage, called for only of the highest mystics. For us ordinary folks, the Vedas prescribe idol-worship. Just as Allah has prescribed for Muslims the form of the Kaa’ba. The Muslims know that they are really not offering their worship to Ka’aba but it is only an aid to help them to focus on the prayer to Allah. Likewise the Hindus too know that the idols are an aid to worship Ishwar and then go beyond idols and Ishwar and reach the stage of Brahman – knower of Brahman becomes Brahman.

VIII

VII. It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 40, Verse 9 "They enter darkness, those who worship natural things" For e.g. air, water, fire etc. It further continues and says, "They sink deeper in darkness those who worship Sambhuti i.e. created things", For example table, chair, idol etc. "Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti’s worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti are intent"The above quotations taken by Dr. Naik are exhortations by the Vedas that we should not restrict our advancement in spirituality to level of objects. It has got nothing to do with BELIEF in One God. What is behind a tree, for instance? It is the bij mantra for that tree (akin to the physical seed). It is said that we may be born in a temple but we should not die in a temple. This only means that we have to go beyond everything, including even the Vedas, till we merge in the Brahman. (And Hinduism gives us as many lifetimes as we need for that.) This is the ultimate. What’s beyond the ultimate? (Well, this question may sound meaningless. But it is worthwhile to remember that there are Rishis in India even of late, like Aurobindo Maharshi, who thought at levels that are beyond the ultimate. Islam, as understood by the best of Muslims, stops at Allah, the sound vibration. It is yet to take its teachings to the level of silence. (But how is this possible, Mohammad has come and gone. No further editions of knowledge are possible.) The Vedas however do not have such restrictive teachings. That is what the above verses mean. The full implication of the above verses can only be explained by a Guru.I feel Dr. Naik is stopping at the brink of studying the Vedas. (But he can’t do it by himself, he needs a Guru. You can’t study the Vedas merely by making annotations as your read along!)
IX
Dear Ajmal Rashid, you will notice in all of Dr. Naik's quotation of the Vedas, nowhere does the God of the Vedas proclaim that He is the only true God and He has appointed so and so as his final authentic messenger. Actually, the “speaker” of the Vedas is not God himself separate from his audience but the resonance of the eternal truths as received by the self-realized Rishi of yore. This is a marked difference between the passages you have quoted from the Quran. The God of the Quran enjoins loyalty and obeisance. Submission of his creatures to him (as if he failed programming that quality in men when he created them). In the Vedas, it is the expression of the Rishi in his higher consciousness of spirituality.

In the light of the above verses, what needs to be pondered over is why the Vedas did not spawn a culture of exclusivity whereas Islam did? What is the reason for this difference in consequence? I humbly suggest that this is because Islam separated the Creator and the created whereas Hinduism says that the Creator and his creation are one.
9:19:46 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (1) Uncategorized
Comments
Bhupender Monday, January 15, 2007 9:10:48 PM
why is every alternate blog on religion. Religion has been the major cause of all conflicts in History and yet we keep trying to prove that one religion is better than the other.

Tuesday, January 16, 2007

No one's faith can be questioned but passing off faith as fact can


No one's faith can be questioned, but passing off faith as fact can.
[This is in reply to Rocking, who commented of Muneerudeen's blog MISCONCEPTIONS - REPLY TO VENUGOPAL on Sat Jan 13 at 8.25.10 pm.]
Dear Rocking,

1. First and foremost, I would like to make clear that I am not questioning the faith of Muslims or anyone’s faith whatsoever. Faith can move mountains. No one can question another’s faith for the simple reason that is a very personal matter. But trying to pass off faith as fact can certainly be questioned.

2. What I said was “God is not rotating the earth like you and I rotate a top.” Everything is consciousness, but it is only man who is conscious that he is conscious. We and the top are separate because the top is not conscious of itself whereas we are. God on the other hand is nothing other than consciousness. Therefore God and his creation are not separate.

3. The drama of creation presents itself before us due to the pulsating nature of consciousness. It is this nature of consciousness that manifests in duality, which is the basis on which consciousness experiences variety. (The explanation of this calls for the explanation of intricate science, which is spoken of in the Vedas.)

4. What we call God is the essential power of consciousness that we are. We realize that power when we wake up it. This awakening is what spirituality is all about – waking up to the power that we really are.
5. Issac Newton’s theory about a thing remaining in a state until and unless a force acts upon it is what we observe in our material world. The material world is only the solidified state of consciousness.
6. Do you remember Newton’s theory that matter can neither be created nor destroyed? There is no place for a creator God in this theory, is there?

7. In Islamic reasoning there is a simple answer to everything – Allah did it, Allah created it, Allah said it, only Allah knows etc. Since Islam believes the Creator-created separation, I ask, who created Allah? Or is this a taboo question?

8. Is a Muslim required to remember Allah with every breath of his? This is great. But what does it mean ‘to remember’ Does it not mean that Allah should be in our consciousness every moment? If you really do it, a moment will come when your consciousness becomes Allah. And such a person would say, Ane Al Haq, or Aham Brahmasmi – I am God.

9. The power Sufi saints have is because they are highly spiritual. The disconnect with Sufis is the major cause of problems in Islam. Many Muslims do not consider the Sufis to be Muslims at all.

10. Allah’s tradition of choosing a man and appointing him as a messenger is fine. But the claim that the tradition ended with Mohammad is inexplicable, except that it is written in the Quran.
11. What you mention about Mohammad sitting in the Nabavi mosque suggests, to me, that Mohammad was meditating and in the trance lost consciousness of his surroundings. However I am not able to imagine the pose he was in when you talk of ‘lap on lap’. In meditation, particularly if accompanied by pranayama, you sweat profusely. I do not know why Mohammad gained weight and his face became red. Do you?

12. You say Mohammad did not know how to read and write. For self realization neither is required. Mohammad certainly knew many things about the Jews - from them he borrowed at least the idea of circumcision and skull cap.

13. It appears that Mohammad had relapses on his spiritual path, which alone helps to reconcile many contradictory verses in the Quran. (One verse says that if you kill one man you have killed mankind and another verses says ‘slay them’.)
9:14:50 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (1) Uncategorized
Comments
RADHAKRISHNAN.C Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:20:03 PM
Great article by you really appreciate your effort in enlightening the brethern who think other wise and chose the wrong path.To guide them is a great service to humanity.But for the people who are so convincedthat their path is the path.they have to trod the path.and achieve whatever is their destinations.Neither you nor me can guide them.since they have already chosen thir path.

Roger Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:41:46 PM
Dear Venugopal, what if there is no God, or consciousness, beyond this life?
K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:02:43 PM
Dear Radhakrishnan, I have no intention of moving anyone from their path. Since NDTV offers the platform and internet the medium, I am only thinking aloud. I am sensitive to others feelings, but I take it for granted that those who blog here are somewhat mature and see all this as just an open discussion of even subjects taboo elsewhere. Which is why I think we must cherish the freedom of the internet.

K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:47:04 PM
Dear Roger,
Whatever we deny, we cannot deny that we exist, can we? Now we have to track the thought and ask, "What do I mean when I say "I". The thought process could go: Not my shirt. Not my hands, for I say 'my hands'. I only possess it, but it is not I. Something keeps saying 'my'. Who says it? Who is the conscious one? Of course, I am the conscious one. Who am I?
What if there is no God, or consciousness, beyond this life? What I possess becomes irrelevant to me as time goes on and when everything becomes totally irrelevant to me, that moment is called death. But I remain. For I am consciousness. I never die nor am I born. I only go to sleep and awaken with dreams and to fulfil those dreams, I embody again. Again and again, till one day I awaken to the dream TAT TVAM ASI and I go to sleep for the last time to awaken finally without dreams and on that day I achieve my liberation. On that day I am that. AHAM BRAHMASMI.

Rocking Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:42:31 PM
Venu I give up.There is no point in arguing any more. neither you can understand my point of view nor i can understand your point of view.So let us agree to disagree.

Roger Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:08:45 PM
"Cogito ergo sum". Your premise is that conscousness is independant of, and exists beyond, one's physical being. It may be so. But it could easily be that death is the end of consciousness too. There is no continuum, it is the end. There is no re awakening. Perhaps life is not divinely ordained, but merely a chance occurrence, and a function of evoltion thereafter. Perhaps there is no meaning or purpose to life. All creatures, sentient or otherwise, are born, procreate, and die. There is nothing beyond that.
MUNEERUDEEN Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:02:36 AM
Iread the first two paragraphs and I knew this could only be the work of our great Hindu Mystic Yoga Exponent - Shri k Venugopal.NOW let me read the rest and comment !
MUNEERUDEEN Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:16:05 AM
I think I have to create another blog to reply to you-since I do not want to reply by EMAIL -since we AGREED TO DISAGREE !I also do not want to hog all the space reserved for comments especially since my detailed comments dont get posted ! SO WATCH FOR MY BLOG IN REPLY !
MUNEERUDEEN Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:16:25 AM
I think I have to create another blog to reply to you-since I do not want to reply by EMAIL -since we AGREED TO DISAGREE !
MUNEERUDEEN Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:27:13 AM
VenujiWE once again Cross paths ! Agreed YOU spent 10 years reading and researching the RSS Doctrine and the Vedas- BUT to put Issac Newton above Allah OR your own Brahma is absurd to the point of your even asking who created Brahma ?And if you say it is consiousness that creates Brahma and moves mountains - THEN in todays world with the millions of SUFIs and Yogis -the Himalayas should be in Japan and the Fuji in Alaska ! Dont be absurd Venu - trying to Brainwash the readers with your VENU VEDA !
MUNEERUDEEN Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:31:22 AM
Venu !Sometimes I wonder if you are even sure that you are contracting yourself. You agree that there is NO Allah BUT Brahma is there.You say there is not ONE life BUT many and so many deaths !How many times does the GOD in you die ??? Aham Brahmasmi ? Whats after that I AM BRAHMA -Not HUMAN NOT BEAST NOT ANIMAL NOT INANE OBJECT ! BRAHMA- WHO ???
K.Venugopal Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:02:09 PM
Dear Rocking, Please do not take our blogs as arguments or attempts to convert or even convince others. Having the opportunity, we simply express ourselves. If we can understand what the other is trying to say, fine. Otherwise, we leave it at that. Life goes on, does it not? Anything more than this becomes activism. I'm not onto activism.

K.Venugopal Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:08:09 PM
Roger, What you say may be right, perhaps. Our attempts to know should not unsettle us. Possibilities are more important than certainties. It is the awe of the fact that is more important than the fact. Knower, knowing and the knowledge. Let us reach the realm of oneness where there is nothing except the dance - the dance of joy!

K.Venugopal Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:31:53 PM
Dear Muneerka, I have not put Issac Newton above Allah. When another blogger quoted Newton’s law, I only quoted another of his law. For you the question “Who created Allah or Brahma” (incidentally I did not use the word Brahma but Brahman, which is a different concept) is impossible. But if questions can be formulated, then at some level they are valid. Islam teaches that man is the eternal slave and Allah the eternal master. The slave cannot know the master except follow his instructions.
K.Venugopal Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:32:46 PM
Hinduism teaches that man is eternally divine and the source of our divinity is Brahman, whose nature is Sat Chit Anand – Eternal Joyous Consciousness, which is a pulsating force. At the periods of its pulsation creation and destruction occurs in the form of involution and evolution. Those who have understood this have expressed the drama of creation and destruction variously. This has come down to us as the corpus of Hindu scriptures and history and philosophy. Islam does not consider these things. It talks about intermediary beings but nothing is elaborated. Creation is a word that is in wide usage and it is difficult to escape its usage. But it would be more correct to say that there is a continuous change of form of the same force of consciousness in different intensities. Therefore, properly speaking, there is no creation at all. But since we at our human level of conscious perceive difference more than unity, the word creation is a useful word, but only that.
K.Venugopal Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:35:29 PM
‘Faith moves mountains’ is a proverb. A dose of it is healthy. But too much of it makes us dogmatic. We have to get to the reality. We have to wake up from our lesser consciousness. I did not say anywhere there is no Allah. I have only been maintaining that we are Allah are not separate but one and disagreeing with you on the nature of Allah.There are many lives so that we can evolve to the destiny of our consciousness – to become Allah. Islam teaches that there is only one lifetime and then eternal paradise or barbeque. Well, as far as beliefs go, we have the choice. But the truth? Who knows? I do not claim that anything I said is the Truth. I only can say that I have expressed my understanding of matters as of now. Tomorrow it may be different. Who knows? But I have not intendedly lied anywhere.

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 2:26:21 AM
I HAVE GIVEN A DETAILED 13 POINT REPLY TO THE 13 POINTS RAISED BY VENUGOPAL. LET OUR BLOGGERS READ BOTH AND MAKE UP THEIR OWN MIND ! NO PRESSURE-ONLY READING PLEASURE ! SO GO ON FOLKS ! ENJOY THE READ AND POST YOUR COMMENTS ! BOUQUETS AND BRISKBATS-WELCOME !!!

Sunday, January 14, 2007

Swami Vivekananda - The Prince of Awakened India



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Friday, January 12, 2007
Swami Vivekananda - The Prince of Awakened India
Swami Vivekananda brought to international focus the spiritual content of India's ancient religions. Swamiji's speeches at the World Parliament of Religions were a turning point in the history of religions and the brightest began to see religion as a journey to discover the divine in us rather than an aggrandisement of identities. He began the Vedantic revolution in the modern age and his work has begun bearing fruit on a wider scale when the world, on the brink of clash of civilisations, is beginning to see the value of Hinduism’s vision of inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. To Swami Vivekananda shall the world refer to more and more as it seeks the light to tread upon the path towards the familyhood of all mankind – Vasudeva Kuttumbakam.

Swami Vivekananda - the Prince of Awakened India!
6:54:10 PM
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