Friday, December 29, 2006

Dr.Manmohan Singh misleading the nation


Thursday, December 28, 2006
Dr. Manmohan Singh misleading the nation
Dr. Manmohan Singh, in proclaiming that Muslims must have the first claim on resources for development, is misleading the nation by suggesting that Governmental economic endeavours can be community specific. When members of both minority and majority communities live cheek by jowl in almost all regions of India (except maybe ethnically cleansed Kashmir Valley), how is the Government going to isolate the majority community and reach development resources only to the minority community? The truth is that economic development, by way of investment in infrastructure or production projects can only be region specific. Unless of course Dr. Manmohan Singh meant that he is going to take from development resources and line the pockets of individual members of the Muslim community.

In making such proclamations, Dr. Manmohan Singh is donning the mantle of Mohammad Ali Jinnah.

11:02:22 AM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (2) Politics
Comments
Peeyush Verma Thursday, December 28, 2006 1:00:20 PM
It certainly redicule the nation. Pacification has become the major platform of the politicians. National intrest has become meaningless. In the case of reservation all political parties played to their tune. Only GOD knows who are the ultimate beneficiaries. The question is, how long these politician will remain our saviour.
das kapital Thursday, December 28, 2006 3:44:08 PM
ethnically cleansed Kashmir valley and GUJARAT! except these 2 states people live cheek by jowl!

Friday, December 15, 2006

Gandhi and the task on hand

[My e-mail in Haindava Keralam yahoo community.]
I do not know why we are criticizing Gandhi. What relevance has he today, unless you agree to his philosophy and wish to implement it in today's world? As members of a Hindu forum, we have to recognize our greatest challenge, take stock of our strengths and overcome our weaknesses. I think our greatest challenge is the Islamic mindset, which, having once truncated our country, is plotting again on the same lines. One thing we can openly do in public forums is to demolish the base upon which Islam stands - that it alone is the true religion, that Allah is the only true God and that Quran is God's last word and all other religions and scriptures are outdated. We can demolish these assumptions of the Muslims by understanding our Advaitic vision, awakening to it and spreading its light. The very light of Advaita would banish the darkness of Islam. Our greatest weakness is that we seem to loose focus. It is better we consider these things rather than seek mere academic discussion on Gandhi and all that. This is my humble opinion.

Thursday, December 14, 2006

Win-win for car owners and passengers

Thursday, December 14, 2006
Comment on blog WIN-WIN for car-owners as well as passengers
This is a brilliant suggestion. Practical problems would include the slowing down of traffic due to cars often stopping to pick up and leave passengers. I suggest the fare should only be that of bus-fare. Also, only car-owners should be allowed this picking up. Employee-drivers would seek to make a fast buck and hence there would be competition on the roads.
8:28:03 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (2) Uncategorized
Comments
govind Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:04:55 PM
May we have link to original blog to comment on yours please ?
K.Venugopal Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:42:43 PM
The original blog was posted on Thursday Dec 14 at 3.07.30 PM.


Thursday, December 14, 2006
WIN-WIN for car-owners as well as passengers
In Delhi , daily I drive my Maruti 800 from Karol Bagh to ITO and find so many passengers standing to go on same route but I feel hesitant to give them lift in my car as
* daily it's not possible
* who knows one of them will snatch my keys and run away with my car
*passengers also feel why I am offering the lift ?
So an interesting situation develops daily :--
*my car is going empty but 3-4 persons can easily sit
* these 3-4 persons go uncomfortably in crowded buses / undisciplined auto etc
* in Delhi summer or winter when weather is at peak , they can easily enjoy AC of my car. During rains also , your attire remains intact in a car than other public transport .
If I am allowed to charge Rs 10/- each passenger ,
* I shall feel motivated to offer lift to 3-4 persons daily
* my petrol-expenses shall get a sort of reimbursement
* passengers will also feel inclined to take a " paid " journey rather than a free lift.
Initially to make the scheme popular , let Delhi Govt not charge anything. Only on payment of token ONETIME processing fee of Rs 100 /- , let a sticker be issued to me so that passengers may know I am " legally ' allowed to give them lift . Only ( genuine ) car-owners with mobile numbers be given this ticker to avoid misuse. Many Colonies / societies also issue Car-passes these days --let Delhi Govt give power to RWAs to issue such stickers so that responsibility is there.
These are , however , my first thoughts only . Please comment here so that scheme is WIN-WIN for car-owners / passengers alike.
3:07:30 PM
Posted By great india Comments (0) Uncategorized

Tuesday, December 12, 2006

M.F. Hussain and the Danish cartoonists

Tuesday, December 12, 2006
M.F.Hussain and the Danish cartoonists
Artistic freedom should mean both the artist's freedom (everybody and anybody can be considered to be an artist) and the freedom to produce artistic works without any bar whatsoever. (Here again, everybody and anybody’s work can be considered an artistic work, for beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.)
So does artistic freedom mean freedom to anybody and everybody to do anything and everything he or she pleases? Absolutely not. We should classify people and activities that cause violence as being unfit for freedom and put them behind bars till they sober down. (Or hang them if they are incorrigible.)
The question is, has M.F. Hussain caused violence? He has not. Nor had the Danish cartoonists. Whatever violence followed or is threatened is due to psychological reasons. This we must distinguish from physical violence caused directly by the artist or his work.
My contention is that psychological violence is the result of a spiritual lack and the cause cannot be anywhere else other than in the perpetrators of the violence itself, not in an artist or his art.
[I intended to post this as comment on Jumbo Jumbo’s blog on the subject but could not. Is NDTV purposely fouling things up because Jumbo Jumbo is an unabashed Hindutvavadi?}

Comments
amused Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:27:54 PM
Its simple. Its an accepted norm that nobody should play with the sentiments of religion. But in India, there is double standard for this. If something offensive against Hinduism is commited its seen as the Intellectual or individual freedome choice. If the same is done on other religions, its seen as Heinous crime and from intellectuals to Politicians stand first in criticizing it, taking credit of banning it first in the whole world.
jumbo_jumbo Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:33:27 PM
dear venu bhaithanx for your compliment. i am proud to be communal if that means standing up for my religion and my culturewhat was hussain's intentions behind the paintings? what would have gone wroong had he clothed sita. why the muslim and christian paintings are shown as fully clothed, while only the hindu paintings are portrayed in a vulgar mannerhindus look upon sita as a goddess and hanuman as a divine being. we have tolerated this thing for too long now
K.Venugopal Friday, December 15, 2006 9:39:35 AM
Dear Amused, You are right. It is the double standards that is the biggest threat to freedom. We have to first expose the secular brigade who practise double standards. If M.F. Hussain's nude Sita is artistic freedom, then so are the Satanic Verses and the Danish cartoons. We can't have selective freedom. Dear Jumbo Jumbo, I agree with you that the sacred should not be tampered with. Still, we should always allow the broadening of perspectives. This has always been the Hindu tradition - whatever can be argued to be true, its opposite too can be argued to be true. However, I would not be able to morally defend M.F. Hussain if I am not able to similarly defend Salman Rushdie and the Danish cartoonists. We are losing our freedom because of secular hypocrisy.

kknath Friday, December 15, 2006 11:20:54 PM
artistic freedom does not mean that you con do any thing, just like freedom of expression does not mean you can say any thing or for that matter the journalist can write what-ever he pleases. a moral responsibility is attached to all things that you do more if you are a public figure ie. you have recognition in public.there is some limitation imposed by the Govt. in all fields which have public domain or where public unrest is expected.that is the reason why the Satanic versus was banned. if this is correct then the paintings of mf hussain who has hurt the feelings of the majority population by repeatedly doing the same inspite the protests and (threats about his well being are extreme and deserve condemnation) acts not involving him physically has to follow suite in the same logic.its only here in india that you can play with the religious sentiments of the majority and still get away with it scot free. why this differentiation when the minority like christians and muslims are not on the same footing.let our jouranlist friends also understand that there actions are under scnnaer of the public.

Monday, December 11, 2006

Mahatma Gandhi

[My comment in Haindava Keralam yahoogroup.
Dear Dr. S. Sharma,

You are talking of the destruction of Congress Party of India as being essential in order to eradicate Gandhian mentality. You must be joking because the Congress of today has nothing to do with Gandhian mentality. The problem with the Congress is that it is given to Muslim appeasement and corruption. Mahatma Gandhi however believed in and lived certain ideals which were very much ahead of his time, though he was inspired by ancient teachings. If John Stuart Mills talks of fighting for what one wants, Vedanta talks of getting rid of the wants itself, what to say of fighting. Krishna may have advised Arjuna to fight, but remember it was a fight against adharma, not for measly wants. That way, Gandhiji too fought, did he not? He could have quietly continued his practice in South Africa and returned to India a very rich man and led a comfortable retired life. But he took up a fight on Dharmic lines.

K.Venugopal

Saturday, December 09, 2006

Periyar's statue

[This was posted in Haindava Keralam comment slot.]
K. Venugopal 12/9/2006 9:41:35 AM
I think those who are dedicated to the cause of Hindutva have two problems in situations like these. If suppose we declare war on DK on this issue, what happens? Much violence, the brunt borne mostly by innocents. Even if we defeat DK, would we win? For after all, aren't the DK folks too Hindus, though they don't want to accept it? So declaring war on them would never bring us any victory. But the other major problem remains. If we accept defeat on this issue, we would loose all self confidence and DK would be cultivated by Islamic forces to be their sword arm in terrorising Hindus.My suggestion is that we install a Ganapati idol right in front of DK headquarters or in front of a prominent Periyar statue. Then regular bhajans and deepa-aradhanas would create the proper atmosphere for everyone to understand that idol-installation is a Hindu act and DK cannot beat us in this game.

Dr. Manmohan Singh converts!


Saturday, December 9, 2006
Dr. Manmohan Singh converts!
The Prime Minister said today that minorities and Muslims in particular must have the first claim on resources for development. Arjun Singh has succeeded in converting Dr. Manmohan Singh to being a crypto Muslim.
8:19:57 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (2) Politics
Comments
iyer53 Saturday, December 9, 2006 9:59:32 PM
Its not as simple as you make it sound.The compulsions of coalition politics/dharma could have been the factor.or the simplest excuse could have been the art of survival,which could have forced one to singalong.Or the person could have matured enough to know how to survive in the dog eat dog world from the acadmic to full grown politician.
chandrashant Saturday, December 9, 2006 10:20:37 PM
The prime minister of India must think before speaking. This type of talk is cheap populism.

Caste or communities?

[This was posted in Haindava Keralam yahoo.group e-mail.]
According to me caste feeling is a henious feeling, the antidote for which is undiluted Hindutva. However, if we see castes as strands of colourful communites in the magnificant fabric of Hindutva, we would come to cherish, respect and honour all our various communities without any feeling of high and low and be proud o ourselves.

Thursday, December 07, 2006

Sidhu and the high moral ground


Friday, December 8, 2006
Sidhu and the high moral ground
Navjot Singh Sidhu has been taking a high moral ground (where none really exists in his case) to pretend not to be squirming at the court verdict. This is an opportunity for him to prove his moral fibre. He should not appeal the sentence but march straight to jail to atone for the sin of having killed an elderly man in a fit of anger. In jail he should meditate so that he is truly a better man when he is out. This way he would be known as a person who can add the moral punch to his words.
9:23:17 AM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Monday, November 20, 2006

The incomplete teaching of the Quran


Monday, November 20, 2006
The incomplete teaching of the Quran
I am provoked to write this because I see that Muslims are not stopping at quoting just from the Quran to prove that there is only one God but are turning to Hindu scriptures and quoting out of context to sustain their theory. (The context of all Hindu scriptures is the discovery of our own divine self.)
Muslims appear to be unable to go beyond the incomplete teaching of the Quran that there is only one God. I say incomplete because instead of religion being a teaching to enable the practitioner to discover the divine or the spiritual within oneself and as one's true self, as is what religions teach in the Hindu culture, the Semitic culture of religions, which includes the Christian and Islamic religions, are more interested in testifying that there is only one God, as if acceptance of this would be the be all and end all of religion. No Hindu religious scripture says that there is only one God and promptly names the God to be so and so or the God to be the one who sent his only son down onto earth etc. When Hindu scriptures say that there is one God is it only saying that Truth is one and seeks thereby to say that its various expressions are not any separate from the one Truth - even as we are not separate from that one Truth.

The irony is that the Muslim who parrots that there is only one God says he is not an idol worshipper, without understanding that when you separate God from yourself, you are in effect doing nothing but making an idol of God. Only the Hindu religion leads man from idol worship, which is the beginning of his religious journey, to the destination of his journey, which is the discovery of himself as that which he was thus far worshiping, thereby ending idol worship with the end of the dichotomy of the worshipper and the worshipped.
9:07:38 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (2) Uncategorized
Comments
iyer53 Monday, November 20, 2006 9:37:16 PM
Hinduism is a way of life and not a religion.First you understand that before comparing other religions with hinduism
K. Venugopal Monday, November 20, 2006 10:12:08 PM
For the Hindu Hinduism may be a way of life. But Hinduism itself, as expressed in its scriptures and myriad other ways, are teachings that take you to your divinity. Such teachings are called religions. Hinduism is a culture of religions.

Friday, November 17, 2006


Friday, November 17, 2006
Here's more on Bhavishya Purana and Mohammad

Bhavishya Purana has also this to say of Mohammad. Here it says that Mohammad took part in worship of Lord Shiva.

Shri Suta Gosvami said: In the dynasty of king Shalivahana, there were ten kings who went to the heavenly planets after ruling for over 500 years. Then gradually the morality declined on the earth. At that time Bhojaraja was the tenth of the kings on the earth. When he saw that the moral law of conduct was declining he went to conquer all the directions of his country with ten-thousand soldiers commanded by Kalidasa. He crossed the river Sindhu and conquered over the gandharas, mlecchas, shakas, kasmiris, naravas and sathas. He punished them and collected a large ammount of wealth. Then the king went along with Mahamada (Mohammad), the preceptor of mleccha-dharma, and his followers to the great god, Lord Shiva, situated in the desert. He bathed Lord Shiva with Ganges water and worshipped him in his mind with pancagavya (milk, ghee, yoghurt, cow dung, and cow urine) and sandalwood paste, etc. After he offered some prayers and pleased him.
Bhavishya Purana can be confusing. Here Mohammad is called an illusionist. But Bhojaraja's military chief is not impressed and threatens to kill Mohammad.

Suta Goswami said: After hearing the king’s prayers, Lord Shiva said: O king Bhojaraja, you should go to the place called Mahakakshvara, that land is called Vahika and now is being contaminated by the mlecchas. In that terrible country there no longer exists dharma. There was a mystic demon named Tripura, whom I have already burnt to ashes, he has come again by the order of Bali. He has no origin but he achieved a benediction from me. His name is Mahaoda and his deeds are like that of a ghost. Therefore, O king, you should not go to this land of the evil ghost. By my mercy your intelligence will be purified. Hearing this the king came back to his country and Mahamada came with them to the bank of the river Sindhu. He was expert in expanding illusion, so he said to the king very pleasingly: O great king, your god has become my servant. Just see, as he eats my remnants, so I will show you. The king became surprised when he saw this just before them. Then in anger Kalidasa rebuked Mahamada, “O rascal, you have created an illusion to bewilder the king, I will kill you, you are the lowest..."
Here, Islam is called an Adharmic religion.

That city is known as their site of pilgrimage, a place which was Madina or free from intoxication. Having a form of a ghost (Bhuta), the expert illusionist Mahamada appeared at night in front of king Bhojaraja and said: O king, your religion is of course known as the best religion among all. Still I am going to establish another religion by the order of the Lord. The symptoms of my followers will be that they first of all will cut their genitals, have no shikha, but having beard, be cruel, make noise loudly and eat everything. They should eat animals without performing any rituals. This is my opinion. They will perform purificatory act with the musala or a pestle as you purify your things with kusha. Therefore, they will be known as musalman. Thus the adharmic religion will be founded by me. After having heard all this the king came back to his palace and that ghost went back to his place.
Here the prediction is that the Muslims will be kept on the other side of the Sindhu. Alas, this did not come true!
The intelligent king, Bhojaraj established the language of Sanskrit in three varnas - the brahmanas, kshatriyas and vaisyas - and for the shudras he established prakrita-bhasha, the ordinary language spoken by common men. After ruling his kingdom for 50 years, he went to the heavenly planet. The moral laws established by him were honored even by the demigods. The arya-varta, the pious land is situated between Vindhyacala and Himacala or the mountains known as Vindhya and Himalaya. The Aryans reside there, but varna-sankaras reside on the lower part of Vindhya. The musalman people were kept on the other side of the river Sindhu.
Here the spread of Islam is indicated. "Managed by a king or demigods." Alas, no democracy!
On the island of Barbara, Tusha and many others also the followers of Isamsiha were also situated as they were managed by a king or demigods.

The above is from a book - Bhavishya Purana: The Prediction of Islam
By Sri Vyasa Muni Published 07/2/2005. (Courtsey: www.indiadivine.org)
8:52:45 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Sunday, October 29, 2006

The burqa controversy


Sunday, October 29, 2006

The burqa controversy proves once more that Islam seeks to have an iron-clad grip on its followers. Instead of culturing man towards his higher sensibilities, Islam is a predetermined code with full of dos and don’ts. This is akin to the degenerated caste system of Hinduism. While Hinduism has its Vedantic vision to redeem itself, Islam is stuck with its Shariat codes, which treats man more as an animal than the divine being he truly is. The only alternative the Muslims who seek freedom have is to abandon Islam or take to the teachings of the Sufis.
10:09:27 PM
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Saturday, October 28, 2006

An urgent appeal to Hindu Brothers & Sisters


Saturday, October 28, 2006
An urgent appeal to Hindu Brothers & Sisters

I came across the following appeal in the Net. Thought I should share it with like-minded folks.

An Urgent Appeal To Hindu Brothers & Sisters
10/26/2006 4:14:46 AM HK
Dear Hindu brothers & Sisters,
There is a grave issue that has come up. The Government of India has set up a Commission to find possibility of granting SC/ST status to converted Muslims and Christians. This is a deep conspiracy to trigger widespread conversions on one hand and to provide converted Christians and Muslims with double benefits of minority and SC/ST. If brought into force, the decision could have a devastating effect on the Hindus of India.
The Commission has sought public opinion on this issue and Muslim and Christian groups are flooding the Commission's office with letters, faxes and e-mails. The RSS has given a call to all countrymen to outnumber pro-reservation forces. Hence we all must write/e- mail the Chairman of the Commission as soon as possible. The last date of receiving public opinion is 31st October 2006. Please:

Write a mail to the Chairman of the Commission at:

ncrlm2005@rediffmail.com

OR

To Member Secretary Ms. Asha Das at das_asha@yahoo.com
Comments
amused Saturday, October 28, 2006 10:16:01 PM
First of all, I express my deep gratitude for taking pains to bring to light this new menace.I think, the most dangerous harm to Hindus has been done & is being done by these socalled SECULARISTS and INTELLECTUALS of India. Its pathetic that all of them are disguised in the name of HINDUS.Definitely we should oppose any such move.By invading India, the Islamic & christian invaders tried but failed to finish Hinduism. But within these 50 years these secularists had done much more harm to Hinduism than the invaders could do in hundreds of years.

Reservations for minorities

This is an e-mail I sent to the Chairman of the Commission on reservations.
28th October, 2006.
Respected Chairman of the Commission,
I have come to understand that the Government of India has set up a Commission to find out about the possibility of granting SC/ST status to converted Muslims and Christians and that the Commission has sought public opinion on this issue. In this regard, I wish to state my opinion.
While reservations are meant to uplift the weaker sections of society, we must have an elaborate mechanism to identify the weaker sections, nay individuals. To dub entire sections as perpetually weak is just being too lazy to identify the weak at a micro level under ever changing circumstances. My suggestion goes like this.
Now that the Income Tax Department has made income tax returns an on-line affair, I am sure that we can have a provision to include all Indians as 'filees' of income. Since everything is computerized, we can quickly identify which Indian has what income and categorize them into either income tax payees or 'income reservationists’. (That is, one section of the population pays money to the Government and the other section gets money from the government, be it in the form of educational concessions, jobs or perty disbursement.) I am willing to spell out the implementation of this scheme in its practical aspects if called upon to do so.
We have certain categories already availing reservation facilities. But now with India poised to lead the world economically and already leading it in computerization, we can certainly aim at a more scientific and systematic reservation on individual-need basis, instead of sticking to en-block communal reservation.
I thank the Commission inviting me, as a citizen of this great nation of ours, to submit my humble opinion on this vital issue.
Thanking you,

Friday, October 27, 2006

Dear Ramhyd, Vedanta is not self-defeatist - it is self-victorious


Saturday, October 28, 2006
Dear Ramhyd, Vedanta is not self-defeatist - it is self-victorious
Dear Ramhyd,

Let God and man be different, let man be God or God be man, let there be one God or uncountable number of Gods, let God be whatever or let there be no God. You and I exist, don't we? And we have at least this lifetime to live, however long or short. The question is, how do we live our life without suffering, at least beyond a tolerable point? (The only thing that is certain and common to all beings is that no one wants to or can suffer beyond a point.) One answer is to amass money. For many, faith in God is a great hope.

When Vedanta says that you are God, it is simply saying that if we pause and consider, consider deeply, then we will come to the realization that we are incapable of suffering. Because we are not really the limited physical body with its emotions, intellect etc., but we are something beyond. When we understand this, we begin to be more and more in a state of awareness. This is a divine experience, a Godly experience. In the fulness of time, in this lifetime or after many down the line, all duality ceases. We become the God we have once been worshiping in a state of duality and ignorance.

How do you call such a teaching self defeatist, escapist and warn it will lead man to further ignominy?
12:27:56 AM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Wednesday, October 25, 2006

When did the 'inner voice' speak to Sonia?


Wednesday, October 25, 2006
When did the 'inner voice' speak to Sonia?
Now Sonia Gandhi says that she always wanted Manmohan Singh to be the PM and she had even told him this in 1999. The impression was that the ‘inner voice’ spoke to her in 2004 and made her abandon her chance to be PM. Now it appears she heard the inner voice way back in time. I hope she clarifies in her next interview when exactly the inner voice spoke to her. Incidentally, her exact words on 18th May 2004 were, "I was always certain that if ever I found myself in the position I find myself in today, I would follow my inner voice. Today that voice tells me I must humbly decline."
9:59:54 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (1) Politics
Comments
opinionblogs Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:13:38 PM
sonia or manmohan.. hardly matters...staunch followers of the principle of appeasing for votes, rather than make india strong.both are blasted.

Monday, October 16, 2006

Less noise, more tranquility - Random Diwali thoughts


Monday, October 16, 2006
Less noise, more tranquillity – Random Diwali thoughts.

1. Why are we bursting crackers on Diwali? In fact crackers should be banned and the whole industry re-allotted a different profession - the computer industry, maybe.

2. The sooner we see the practice of giving gifts on Diwali to actually be an ugly manifestation of materialism, the quicker we would become more cultured.

3. All Hindu festivals should be occasions of temple going or meditating with prayers and silence. Even our Ganapati mandals have become lavish materialistic affairs. We should henceforth have only minute and symbolic Ganesha’s in the mandals, sans blaring of mikes and sales of lottery.

4. Our Navarathri dances too should be sans blaring mikes and garish dressing. Why, you would get a more graceful rhythm with synchronized clapping of hands and the bansuri than those horrendous drums.

5. Our Hindu society has begun to believe that nothing can be done without money. But I ask, do you need money to pray to God? Do you need money to dance, to smile? To love . . . ? What pooja can be more powerful then the chanting of mantras – OM NAMO SHIVAYA, for instance?

6. We should actually not even use flowers in our pooja, for why pluck those lovely things off their mother plant, paining it?

7. We should begin a new tradition of daily, in groups and in turns, dedicating a portion of our time to cleanse the temple and its precincts nearest us so that we come to experience that Cleanliness is Godliness.
9:51:46 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

We need second-class citizenship


Monday, October 16, 2006
We need second-class citizenship

Instead of bothering about dual citizenship for People of Indian Origin (if they so love our country, why don’t they live in our country?), we should seriously consider having dual citizenship in our country – first-class citizen and second-class citizen. All corrupt citizens should be degraded to be second-class citizens and they should be treated as lepers of yore were treated.

Only then will the noble get to rule our country.
9:01:17 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Sunday, October 15, 2006

To Citizen Kane - on Dr. Zakir Naik


Thursday, October 12, 2006
To Citizen Kane - on Dr. Zakir Naik
Dear Citizen Kane,
Thank you for commenting on my blog but I could not paste the following comment on my own blog!
Dr. Naik is to be respected for seeking to settle arguments with quotations rather than AK47s. However, in blog by Irshad4u on Wed Oct 11 titled, "Common Questions asked by Hindus about Islam", occurs a statement which is typical of Dr. Naik:
"Even if Ram and Krishna were prophets of God, they were only meant for people of that time and were to be followed only for that particular period of time. Today, all the human beings throughout the world, including India should only follow the last and final prophet and Messenger of God-prophet Muhammad (pbuh). "
This is the whole problem with Dr. Naik's scholarship. He want's the world to think of nothing but Mohammad. Scholarship is delving into infinite possibilities. For Dr. Naik, there is only one possibility - Islam. Is he then a true scholar or a propagandist?
9:16:56 AM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (4) Uncategorized

Comments
Shahul Thursday, October 12, 2006 9:36:22 AM

Hi Mr. Venu Gopal... And this is your problem that you don't trust that Last Prophet is Mohammed. And since Dr. Naiak believe in Prophet Mohammed and Quran he want to announce the truth what he gained knowledge through his scholar...So, its obvious that he will talk about Mohammed and also about Islam and also about Vedas and Hindu scripts. Well, its upto the people to analyse or to accept the fact.He talks about the meaning of Vedas.. About Quran... since he know both very well. Plzz.. find other way to criticize him. After all Dr. Zakir Naik is a medical doctor by professional training, and he renowed as a dynamic international orator on Islam and Comparative Religion. So, its obvious that he talk about Mohammed and Islam.

Infidel Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:32:46 PM
Now who says this, shahul, coooool.Why all you muslims keep your belief and faith to yourself. Why always you people want to prove that mohammad was the last prophet, which you will never be able to prove.And Dr. Zakir Naik sees the thing from Islamic point of view (I have no objection to that).My problem is that you people believ that what ever Dr Naik said or written can not be questioned and is kind of derivation from god.Even if it so, why can't Dr Naik accept the debate with Dr. Ali Sina of Faithfreedom site who has challenged him so many times. Just to prove the truth once again and prove Dr. Ali Sina's charges as false.Dr. Ali Sina is renowned all over the world and is of no less calibre than Dr. Naik.I wonder if Dr. Naik can disapprove even a single charge of Dr Sina.So dear shahul, come out of your tunnel view and see the world which means much more than islam.

Infidel Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:34:52 PM
"Why all you muslims keep your belief and faith to yourself".Please read it as "Why don't all you muslims keep your belief and faith to yourself only".

Bharat_mata Saturday, October 14, 2006 1:32:44 PM
Mr Infidel as your name suggets if you dont believe then you are free to follow any religion but for god sake please talk sense.

Walk barefoot for good health


Sunday, October 15, 2006
Walk barefoot for good health

Based on a couple of years of personal experience, I would say that walking barefoot blesses us with improved health. Wriggling our toes when at leisure too contributes to our good health.
7:18:14 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Health

Wednesday, October 11, 2006


Wednesday, October 11, 2006

"Mohammad in the Vedas" scholarship exposed

There has been some blogs on NDTV blogspace suggesting that the Vedas prophesised Mohammad and all that. I came across the following article on the internet having a different take on the subject. I take the liberty of copying it on this blog for fellow-bloggers reading pleasure.

Zakir Naik and Abdul Haque Vidyarthi Exposed
By S. Prasadh
Purpose Of Article
Recently, it has become a fad for all Islamic websites to publish Dr.Zakir Naik’s (An Islamic Propagator from India ) and Dr.Abdul Haque Vidyarthi’s article on Muhammad foretold in Hinduism. It is a well know fact that the same websites insult HINDU scriptures, their idols, their ideology and criticize them vulgarly. But their desperation leads them to cherry pick some verses from Hindu scriptures and decipher them in their own terminology and claim that many mantras point to MUHAMMAD. Let us take some of the alleged prophesies of Muhammad in Vedas. Any internet search engine containing the worlds Muhammad and Hindu returns a large number of results on this theme. A number of textual proofs are given in support of this claim. While this comforts the faithful, let us analyze these proofs rationally and see whether the claim holds up under the clear light of reason, not fogged by religious sentimentality. However, I must confess that I have been unable to get hold of the book written by Dr. Vidyarthi, and therefore I am refuting the material available on this page, a clear material about claims of Dr.Zakir Naik has been presented in his home site. I shall be arguing on the premises of 5 aspects of such claims. At the end of this article, you shall infer the truth about these Islamic propagandists.
The Rebuttal

1. The first premise is based on the Qur’anic belief that There Never Was A People Without A Warner:
Qur'an 35:24, Qur'an 16:36, Qur'an 4:164, Qur'an 3:81-82 all declare that Allah had sent messengers or apostles before to various nations of the earth telling them to worship Allah and accept the apostles as His messenger. To the Muslims these verses mean that every religion had its prophet of whom Muhammad is the last and final. From this they deduce that scriptures of other religions must contain mention of Muhammad. To a Muslim there is no proof needed but the Koran; but for unbelievers the Koran by itself is no proof. Satisfactory proof is yet to be given that Allah exists or that the Koran is God's Revelation. Nor does it automatically follow that Mohammed's arrival would be predicted anywhere. FFI contains many articles that actually questions and sometimes disproves the credibility of both.

2. The next argument is based on linguistics:
I have already given sufficient substantiation on how linguistics play an important role in interpreting other scriptures related to the Qur’an in my previous article titled Quran And Royal Plural .
The writers seem to indicate that Sanskrit has been borrowed from Arabic. They have found this by an analysis of the Vedas. However, when we come to the actual words given as examples, the ground is too shaky to withstand scrutiny.
(a) Brahma, the Creator in the Hindu Trinity, is declared to be actually Abraham. The initial letter A in Abraham has apparently been moved to the end making it Brahma. We are told "This analysis is accurate when one writes the two words in Arabic script, a language close to that spoken by Prophet Abraham". This immediately raises the problem of what language Abraham actually spoke and also that "a language close to that spoken" is not the same thing as the actual language. Also since the analysis is based on only phonetic similarity and on changing the position of the alphabets, the Hindus can with equal justice claim that Ramadan/Ramazan is actually a corruption of 'Ramanavami'.
Not only that, let us take a look at the linguistic root of Brahma. The term Brah comes from the root Bri which means "to worship, to select, to surround". When an h is added to Bri it becomes Briha meaning to "increase, to grow". By addition of 'an', we have the word Brahman who in Hinduism is the Supreme God. Brahman thus is the original word. Brahman is without form, without gender and cannot be plural. The cosmos came into being by its will alone. When Brahman is imagined as a masculine being engaged in the act of creation, then it is called Brahma. When Brahman is imagined as a feminine being, who is the source of energy without which the act of creation cannot take place, then it is called Brahmani. Brahma thus has nothing to do with Abraham (incidentally we can also claim that Abraham comes from Brahma), but comes from Brahman and is clearly the God of creation/the creative aspect of God and not a human.
(b) "Similarly, Abraham’s first wife Sarah is mentioned in the Vedas as Saraswati". This again depends on mere phonetic similarity. Unfortunately, when we study the Rigvedic verses we see that Saraswati was actually a river. There is great dispute as to where this river was, but there is no doubt that it is a river. Rigveda again and again declares it to be a river with descriptions of flowing down from the mountains into the sea and it is worshipped as a river-goddess. Later on, somehow or other she became the goddess of learning as well. It was only in the Middle Ages that she became the consort of Brahma. In the Vedas, she is definitely not Brahma's wife. Unless one is willing to grant that the Sara of the Bible was originally a river, one cannot see any connection between the two.
( c ) "Noah or Nuh is mentioned as Manuh or Manu." The only similarity between the two characters lies in their stories. Like Noah Manu too was saved by God during the Flood. But this proves nothing except that these are two stories that involve flood. Moreover, the rest of the story simply does not match: Manu had no ark (only a boat tugged by God in the form of a fish) and definitely no kind of animals with him to repopulate the world. Not only that, Manu is a generic name for 14 sovereigns of the world in the myths and there is a female Manu as well who is the Mother of mankind (Manava > children of Manu (fem.) )
(d) Similarly, it is argued that 'Maleccha' (unclean ones) come from Hebrew word "Ma-Hekha which means 'thy brethren'. (e.g., And he (Ishmael) shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. Genesis 16:12; i.e., Ismaelites are the brethren of the Israelites). This word therefore means a descendant of Ishmael, and it is well known that Muhammad (s) is a descendant of Prophet Ismail through his second son Kedar. Those who can read Arabic Script can easily see that a mistake in separating Ma from Hekha will produce a single word ‘Malhekha,’ and when adapted in another tongue like Sanskrit might sound like Malechha". Again this relies on the belief that ancient Hindus knew Hebrew and had read the version of the Bible, as we find it today. Linguistically, the term comes from 'mlech', meaning to speak indistinctly, barbarously. So 'mlechha' came to mean those who could not speak the Vedic language, those who are outside Hindu society. The term is definitely ancient since it is found in Vedas.

3. The third argument draws heavily from what is known as Bhavishya Purana or Book of Prophecies. Prati Sarg Parv III: 3, 3, verses 5-27 give detailed descriptions of Mohammed's doings, the establishment of the new religion and even gets the Prophet's name right. So we immediately come to the question of how authentic this book is. According to most scholars, this book is a work of compilation that went on through centuries, with the writers pretending to pass off historical knowledge as prophecies of the future. The writer argues, "A case has been made that the present Puranas are not the same collection that Vedas refer to and the real books were lost". I would be very astonished if any Hindu had actually made such a claim, because it is common knowledge that Puranas were written after the Vedas and the Vedas never mention any Purnanas. However this allows Mr. Haq and Dr.Naik to set up an useful non-existent strawman for them to demolish. He also argues that materials could not have been added in later dates because Puranas were read in public and so could not have been altered. However, only the more popular stories from the 18 Puranas were read in assemblies and Bhavishya Purana is a text that was seldom read out in public. Even if we accept the book as authentic, two questions arise. One is, why does the book contain prophecies only till Victoria 's reign? Why did God suddenly decide to suspend his revelations at that particular moment? Surely it would have been more proper to continue it (even through Muslim holy men) or to end all such prophecies with the emergence of Islam and the 'perfect' Book of Qur’an which was to replace all others. Secondly, the Purana is filled with stories of the doings of various gods and concludes that the only god who is worthy of worship is the Surya, the sun-god. If the book is authentic then all such stories are also true and therefore it is the sun we must worship. However, most Muslims have not read the whole book; those who have, argue that all such portions are corruptions. But Hindus can too use such pick-and-choose methods by declaring that it is the portions relating to Islam which are degenerations. The Bhavishya Purana is precisely described as :
“ Bhavishya Purana. This is what is told to Manu by Surya (Sun). This contains statements about future events. The book praises the worship of Surya (Sun), Agni (fire) and Naga (serpent). There is an annexure dealing with the several holy places of Bharata and the rights of pilgrims. The book contains fourteen thousand verses and it is considered to be uttama (best) to give this book along with treacle as a gift to a brahmin on the full-moon day in the month of Pausha “
Bhavishya purana also is allegedly claiming that JESUS has come to INDIA . You can find such an argument here. If muslims believe Bhavishya Purana predicts Muhammad, then why don’t they believe Jesus came to INDIA and learnt tricks from Siddhas? Bhavishya Purana also praises worship of Surya, Agni and Naga. Muslims will pray any of these? When they never will approbate any of these, how come they only believe that some unrelated verses point to Muhammad? Can you see the desperation among these two men?
4. Prophecy in Vedas:
(The Vedas are the oldest scriptures of Hinduism. They date back to around 4000BC approximately or even older. They are written in an archaic language, so ancient that when Sanskrit as a language was codified ordinary people had already started forgetting the meanings of the verses. The great pundits of the time therefore started to write commentaries and grammar books on them. Even today, it is not possible to translate the verses without these texts. However today's scholars also have the help of comparing them with other languages.)
Dr.Zakir Naik and Dr.Haq declare that Atharva Veda, Kanda (chapter) 20, Mantras 126-137 prefigures about Muhammad. This portion is known as Kuntap sukta. He says that the word Kuntap means to consume sin and misery, and it is composed from Kuh (sin and misery) and tap (to consume). This is not wholly correct. The Gopatha Brahman defines the term as "that which burns away whatever is evil or ugly". However the meaning is close enough. But he goes onto say that the word Kuntap also means "the ‘hidden glands in the abdomen,’ inferring the true meaning to be revealed only to those who are able to develop sufficient insight". It is a pity that he does not give his source for this meaning. But apparently he has developed sufficient insight to read its hidden meaning: that this meaning proves it is actually a reference to Mecca which is called navel of the earth by Muslims. Then Dr.Naik and Dr. Haq "shows that the word "Kuntap is derived from Bakkah (Makkah). In the analysis of Sanskrit and Arabic words having the same meaning … , the word ‘b’ in Arabic is used as ‘p’ in Sanskrit (in our times, one example is that of soft drink Pepsi; it is written and pronounced as Bebsi in the Arab world). A certain ‘t’ in Arabic becomes silent and pronounced as h depending on its position in that word … For example, ‘tun’ in Medinatun is replaced by h when pronounced (both t and n are dropped). Further, many Sanskrit words having parallel in Arabic are written backwards … Thus one can see the similarity between the word Kuntap and Bakkah (each containing letters k, n, t, p)".
This once again is absolutely childish, on the same level as Brahma and Abraham. "Kuyang ang nam kutsitang bhavati taddopatti , tasmat [from there] Kuntap" --- the letters k, u, n, t, a, p all come from the Sanskrit words in the definition. (I have used Roman alphabets for the ordinary reader, though the pronunciation is not absolutely accurately transcribed thereby). Also, another term for the Kuntap sukt is left out. It is also called 'Khila-parva' meaning supplement; these verses are taken mostly from the Rig-Veda and are not considered to be of any great importance. Indeed many translations skip this chapter altogether, which no doubt Dr.Naik and Dr. Vidyarthi felt can only help their cause.
(Just to muddy the waters further, a Hindu has argued that the word Mecca comes from the Sanskrit root Makh or Yajna; the name Mohammad is a derivative of Krishna's another name, Madan Mohan and the word Aab (water) comes from the pure Sanskrit word Aap meaning water. We have exactly the same type of argument here that Vidyarthi/Haq gives, except that it is turned upside down: but the latter is equally valid in its methodology as the former. In fact since no analysis is given that can expose its weaknesses, -- only an assertion is made --- the Hindu claim appears more valid!).
The writers say that the third Mantra of the Kuntap Sukt translated by someone called Pandit Raja Ram is:
"He gave the Mamah Rishi a hundred gold coins, ten chaplets, three hundred steeds and ten thousand cows."
They go onto explain " The root of the word Mamah is Mah which means to esteem highly, honor, revere, to magnify and to exalt. The word "Mohammad" means "the praised one" in Arabic. Therefore, Mamah is synonymous with Mohammad when the full meaning of the verse is considered. The 'd' dropped as in the case of Mamah (Mohammad, which is derived from root letters h, m, and d)". It is a very ingenious explanation. Alas! the only problem is that Mamah is not a single word nor a name. It is a combination of two words 'mamo' and 'ahe', meaning "to me".
Then Dr.Naik and Dr.Haq go on to explain the 'hidden' (!) symbolism in the line. The hundred gold coins apparently refer to the early companions of Prophet Muhammad,. The ten chaplets refer to ten companions of Prophet Muhammad, who were given the good news of Paradise by the Prophet. Three Hundred Good Steeds (horses of Arab Breed) refers to those companions of Prophet Muhammad who fought at ‘Badr.’ We are told that though their actual number was 313, in many prophecies the numbers are usually rounded up. Ten Thousand Cows refer to ten thousand companions who accompanied the Prophet when he conquered Mecca . The interpretation is based on a hadith in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 9, number 159, where Muhammad narrates a dream where cows symbolize the believers. Is there any other evidence to suggest that the hymn is a symbol of anything, far less of the meaning the writers finds? There is not. Also both of them reveal their shoddy Vedic scholarship when they declare "The Sanskrit word Arvah means a swift Arab horse particularly used by Asuras (non-Aryans)". In the Vedas the Asuras are not non-Aryans; gods like Indra and Varuna are addressed as 'Asur' which simply means 'lord'. It was far later that Asuras came to symbolize demons.

They then give their version of the mantras 1 through 13 of the Kuntap Sukt which according to them is amassed from some Hindu Pundits. However the work of Griffith and Whitney are usually considered sufficient :
1. Listen to this O people! a praiseworthy shall be praised. O Kaurama we have received among the Rushamas sixty thousand and ninety. [population of Makkah at the time of Prophet’s triumphant entry in Makkah].
The Rusama is mentioned in RigVeda as a protégé of Indra, and is elsewhere referred to as a community which has nothing to do with Mecca . Kaurama is the alternative name for Kaurava, a generous donor in the community.
2. Twenty camels draw his carriage, with him being also his wives. The top of that carriage or chariot bows down escaping from touching the heaven.
The accepted wording Whose twice ten buffaloes move right along, together with their cows; the height of his chariot just misses the heaven which recedes from its touch. You can find an accurate and famous translation of Vedas here . I have never heard of camels being used by INDIANS in Vedic Times, nor can you make notice of camels in any of Hindu Scriptures.
3. He gave the Mamah Rishi a hundred gold coins, ten chaplets, three hundred steeds and ten thousand cows.
As noted earlier it is not the Mamah rishi, but simply rishi.
4. Disseminate the truth, O ye who glorifies [Ahmad], disseminate the truth, just as a bird sings on a ripe fruited tree. Thy lips and tongue move swiftly like the sharp blade of a pair of shears. [The Prophet’s state when he received revelation through Archangel Jibril (Gabriel)].
Again, the standard translation is "Glut thee o singer, glut thee, like a bird on a ripefruited tree".However, the term 'narasansha' which is translated as singer, can also mean someone who praises. Someone who praises is not praiseworthy. Narasansha doesn’t equate to Muhammad. Apparently this version is relied on, so that it can be equated with Ahmad.
5. The praying ones with their prayers hurry on like powerful bulls. Only their children are at home, and at home do they wait for the cows. [Cows refers to companions of the Prophet. Prophet’s companions strict adherence to five daily prayers at appointed times. Refers to Battles of Badr, Uhud, and Ahzab (Ditch or Allies)].
The actual translation is”The chanters with their pious song hurry on blithely as cows; at home are their children, and at home the cows do they attend”.
6. O you who praises (the Lord), hold fast the wisdom, which earns cows and good things. Disseminate this among the divines, just as an archer places his shaft on the right point. [wisdom of the Qur’an].
Again, here the standard translation is "O singer bring thou forth the hymns..." . They say this verse in wisdom of Qur’an. Now if that is the case, Vedas were written several years before the OT,NT and Qur’an. Then why don’t muslims read Vedas instead? Look how the translation has been played with and changed to their convenience.
7. Sing the high praise of the king of the world or the Light of the Universe, who is a god and the best among men. He is a guide to all people and gives shelter to everyone. [Prophet Mohammed's qualities].
The standard translation is, "Sing the praise of Pariksit, the sovereign whom all people love, the king who ruleth over all, excelling mortals as a god". The name Parikshit is definitely mentioned. Parikshit is the name of a king of the Kaurava line, though it cannot be ascertained whether this is the same king mentioned in Mahabharata. However, this name is left out. Apparently even the writer's imagination has a hard time trying to prove that Parikshit is another name for Muhammad.
8. He who affords shelter to everybody, gave peace to the world, as soon as he mounted the throne. Men in Kuru-land are talking of his peace-making at the time of the building of the house. [Kuru means one who protects a house in Hebrew and Kore means a house. It refers to the first house of worship, the Ka’bah. In this sense, Kuru-land means the land of Koreish . This Mantra refers to the rebuilding of the Kabah five years before Mohammed's prophethood and his role in peace-making when each tribe of the Koreish (Quraish) wanted the sole honor to put the Black Stone at its right place and disputed to the point of threats to fight each other. The Black Stone is a celestial material and is the only remaining part of the original building material of the Ka'bah].
Standard translation: "Mounting his throne Parikshit best of all hath given us peace and rest, saith a Kaurava to his wife as he is ordering his house". A Kaurava is a member of the Kuru clan, descended from Kuru, whatever may be its meaning in Hebrew. Also why are the specific terms husband (pati) and wife (jaya) left out? I am sure the writer could have found some hidden significance in them as well, if only he had worked hard.
9. In the realm of the King, who gives peace and protection to all, a wife asks her husband whether she should set before him curd or some other liquor. [Due to Prophet’s protection and commandments, women could travel freely long distances without any escort or fear].
Really? Do you see any correlation between the words in the actual verses and the meaning these two muslims try to give it? Above all, liqour is mentioned. I have never heard of any men drinking liqour when Muhammad lived, as he prohibited liqour.
10. The ripe barley springs up from the cleft and rises towards heavens. The people prosper in the reign of the king who gives protection to all. [people rise from the depth of degradation to the height of glory].
From what degradation did Muhammad lift up the arabs? He said sex outside marriage is bad. Well, that was indeed older in INDIA ! Everyone followed it and believed it and forbid pre-marital sex. Instead Muhammad set a great example(not exception because muslims repeat it) by marrying a kid. Is that degrading or glorifying?
11. Indra awoke the singer of his praises and asked him to go to the people in every direction. He was asked to glorify Indra, the mighty and all pious men would appreciate his effort and God would bestow on him His rewards. [The Prophet sent letters to several kings and rulers in every direction inviting them to Islam].
What do Mr.Naik/ Mr.Haq want to tell? They tell Indra = Allah!!!In Hinduism Indra is god of weather and war ,and Lord of Heaven or Swargaloka He was also an important figure in non-Hindu traditions. Mythology is that, Indra is also cursed by the supreme power. The supreme power is the only GOD, and INDRA is supposedly a Demi-God. Refer here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indra#The_curse_on_Indra . Well, there is mythology that Indra rode on chariots. Does Allah drive a chariot or BMW?? How ridiculous!Only someone very determined to prove his thesis can find that these verses refer to Islamic history.
12. Cows, horses and men multiply and increase here, because here rules the one who is bountiful and splendidly generous who gives thousands in charity and sacrifice. [qualities of the Last Prophet].
Here another reference to a demi god is left out : "Here, O cattle, ye shall be born, here, ye horses, here, ye domestics! And Pûshan also, who bestows a thousand (cows) as sacrificial reward, settles down here.". Pushan means Muhammad? No way! Pushan is again a demi-God.

13. O Indra, let these cows be safe, and let not their master be harmed. And let not an enemy, O Indra, or a robber overpower them. [Indra refers to God and cows to saintly followers of the Prophet].
The so-called schollars(for dollars??) is not quiet upto the latest researches done by his other Muslim colleagues. They are assiduously writing that Indra as the god of war and leader of Aryans, is the cruel enslaver of the indigenous inhabitants of India and is the first terrorist in the world. They very much contradict each other in their own terms!
As can be seen the writer very carefully leaves out certain words and gives others another meaning than commonly associated with them. However, even that is not enough to turn the verses into predictions about Muhammad. Read in the ordinary manner the verses simply show a picture of a kingdom thriving under a benevolent king; these are simply hymns of praise. He therefore has to take the help of symbolism. The source of his symbolism cannot be found in the Vedas themselves --- he simply imposes them arbitrarily in order to suit his theory. Only the eye of faith can produce such an interpretation of the hymn.

Then these two quote a verse from Sama Veda, II:6,8: "Ahmad acquired religious law (Shariah) from his Lord. This religious law is full of wisdom. I receive light from him just as from the sun." They get the translation almost right with a peculiarly Islamic twist. The proper translation is, "I from my Father have obtained deep knowledge of eternal Law; I was born like unto the Sun". As for 'Ahmad', once again it is a typical example of sleight-of-hand like Mamah. The actual Sanskrit term is 'ahammiddhi' , 'aham' meaning “ I ”.
To clinch the matter, the scholars then quote from Rig Veda V, 27, 1: "The wagon-possessor, the truthful and truth-loving, extremely wise, powerful and generous, Mamah [Mohammad] has favored me with his words. The son of the All-powerful, possessing all good attributes, the mercy for the worlds has become famous with ten thousand [companions]."
However, the standard translation of this verse reads, "The Godlike hero, famousest of nobles, hath granted me two oxen with a wagon. Trvrsan's son Tryaruna hath distinguished himself, Vaisvanara Agni! with ten thousands". "Vaisvanara" is another name for the fire-god, but it is not known with certainty who Trvrsan or his son might be. However, Haq leaves out the reference to the Fire-god. Trvsran becomes another name for Allah (on the grounds perhaps that there is a possibility that the name can refer to a god) while the name Tryaruna is omitted altogether. Instead he once again falls back on the standby of Mamah. Apparently wherever the particular combination of letters forming the word 'mamah', whether alone or whether occurring in combination of other letters in a word, it is employed to prove that it indicates Muhammad. The maximum the verse can be stretched to read is that, "O fire, lord of mankind! the protector of the righteous, extremely wise, lordly (incidentally the term employed here is 'asura') and rich, Trivsran's son Tryaruna has given me two cows yoked to a wagon and ten thousand gold pieces and thus gained fame". The singer of the verse is being favoured not with words of wisdom but with material gifts. One cannot call Haq's translation anything other than a lie. Not surprisingly he leaves the rest of the hymn alone. In it the singer explains that the king had given him these gifts because he had pleased him with his praise and he asks the gods to grant happiness to the donor. Further Dr.Zakir Naik in his site says
Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in the Rigveda
A similar prophecy is also found in Rigveda Book I, Hymn 53 verse 9:
The Sanskrit word used is Sushrama, which means praiseworthy or well praised which in Arabic means Muhammad (pbuh).
The above specified Hymn and verse translates as : “ With all-outstripping chariot-wheel, O Indra, thou far-famed, hast overthrown the twice ten Kings of men,With sixty thousand nine-and-ninety followers, who came in arms to fight with friendless Susravas.”
It speaks about Indra, a praise to Indra and not Muhammad!! Dr.Naik Susrava is singular. Susravas = plural. Group of praiseworthy people. So it does not point to Muhammad!

5. The last premise would be logic. Dr.Naik and Dr.Haq seem to commit several logical fallacies. They tend to contradict each other. They say they don’t believe in HINDU scriptures once. You can find how Zakir Naik criticizes Hindu way of worship in a section called “Conveying Islam To A Hindu”. But still he uses Hindu scriptures’ authority to prove Muhammad’s prophethood and Islam’s validity! Either this proves
*Hindu religion is truly divine.
* Allah did not give enough proofs in Qur’an to sustain his claims.
* All muslims must convert to Hinduism.
* Muslim scholars are bluffing to convert Hindus just like they do to Christian.
Dr.Zakir Naik and Dr.Haq actually commit these logical fallacies : Post hoc ergo propter hoc, Red herring, Petitio principii, Non Sequitur ,Straw man and Tu quoque. Simply no hindus will convert because of such bad marketing skills!! Truth is powerful than any other attractive marketing techniques.
Another claim of Muhammad being Kalki Avatar is also doing rounds. Due to space and time constraint, let me tell you, AVATAR = GOD INCARNATE. Muhammad was a normal arab who did nothing! Kalki Avatar will have 8 superhuman qualities. Muhammad had none. For a more detailed explanation, of why Muhammad cannot be Kalki Avatar can be found here.
A Point To Ponder Upon
The Vedas are supposed to be most supreme text of Hindus along with the Gita. There are 4 Vedas.
The number of verses in the Rig Veda total 10800
The Number of verses in Atharva Veda total 5987
The Number of verses in Yajur Veda total 2000
The number of verses in Sama Veda total 1875
Therefore, length of Vedas = 10800 + 5987 + 2000 + 1875 = 20662
Length of Qur’an = 6346
Ratio = Length of Vedas / Length of Qur’an = 3.255
The Qur’an is thrice as small as Vedas. When muslim scholars take a lots of time to learn Arabic, memorise Qur’an,read hadiths, do you believe they can learn Sanskrit, or even if not, read such big Vedas, interpret them, and present it? Some people who get money do this, for them, they just vomit whatever they get on hand without giving it a thinking. Imagine, Upanishads, Puranas, Bhagavad gita,etc. when put together will take a lifetime to read and understand them.
I strongly feel, Dr.Ali Sina is of much higher caliber than any of these meek so-called scholars (for dollars??). Ali doesn’t provide stupid data like these people. Hope Hindus now have a clear idea of what this hoax of Muhammad in Hindu scriptures are all about. They are nothing but words on water.

Conclusion
The amount of manipulation and misdirection we see with these men is astonishing. The Islamic propagators are either grossly misled or are apparently relying on the fact that not enough of their readers will know Sanskrit or bother to look up references. They happily mistranslate and use symbolism without any shred of proof. One understands their eagerness to prove that Islam is the culmination of every religion. However one has to wonder, if the faith of the writers like these is so insecure that they have to search in other religions for legitimacy. Also one has to wonder what this says of other Muslim scholars who have read the Vedas before. None of them had ever read any of the meanings that Dr.Naik or Dr.Haq finds; obviously they were either more foolish or less learned than our Dr.Naik/Dr.Haq. However, the climax comes in this assertion: "The Vedas contain many prophecies about Prophet Muhammad. Some European and Hindu translators of the Vedas have removed the name referring to the Prophet, while others have tried to explain away the mantras (verses) on his life events, Ka’bah, Makkah, Medinah, Arabia, and other events using the terminology of the Hindus, such as purification rituals, and lands and rivers in India". In other words, explain what scholars might like, our good Islamic Sanskrit scholar knows that they would be lies. Dr.Naik/Dr.Haq operates under the assumption that anyone who tries to refute them is by the very definition a liar. This assertion is a wonderful way of not having to face the truth. (Of course I personally believe that Haq's book/ Zakir Naik’s Da’wah material is not meant for either the Hindu or the serious scholar; it is targeted at the Muslims to strengthen their faith). Hope I have made it clear to many people, especially Hindus about the lies of Dr.Zakir Naik and Dr.Abdul Haq, of how they write articles,books,da’wah material,etc. just to fool the ignorant Hindus, because most Hindus are not fanatically religious and conaequently they don’t read much of their books. Infact when a Hindu reads this article, he/she will have increased faith in HINDUISM than converting to Islam. Thanks to bad marketing techniques of Dr.Zakir Naik blemished with lies.
References
www.sacred-texts.com/hin/
www.hindunet.org/vedas/
www.irf.net
www.vedarahasya.net/
www.san.beck.org/EC7-Vedas.html
http://http:/www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/dawah

S.Prasadh

lightofasia@gmail.com

lightofasia@gmail.com
Muslims tend to replace every ‘praiseworthy’ with ‘Muhammad’. Ambrose Bierce said “There are four kinds of Homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy.” Now Muslims, why don’t you try replacing praiseworthy with Muhammad here?
3:05:50 PM
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Sunday, October 08, 2006

Afzal - to hang or not?


Sunday, October 8, 2006
Afzal - to hang or not?
If we see Afzal’s hanging in the light of a nation’s maintaining an army, police-force and all that, it would become apparent that it is imperative for a nation’s survival that the enemies of the nation be eliminated, for otherwise why should such forces be maintained with standing power to eliminate or immobilise the enemies of the nation or its law-breakers?

The only question that can arise is whether Afzal was afforded due justice. The question of his not getting a lawyer and all that should be taken seriously. Since the verdict is of the Supreme Court’s, it must have considered this issue also. However, to ensure that justice was not only done but also seen to be done, the President can refer this question back to the Supreme Court or whoever to clarify whether all procedural precedence was followed in the trial of Afzal. We cannot weaken any of our institutions by not following procedures in upholding the law of the land. Once this is satisfied, it should be the death penalty for a person who, in seeking to attack the Parliament, is beyond doubt an enemy of the nation.

Commuting his sentence to life imprisonment is a burden of the state, for it has to feed him, protect him, treat him when necessary and finally free him. We are only straining our limited resources in doing this, thereby achieving the goal of the enemies of our nation.
8:58:00 PM
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Friday, September 29, 2006

Santhara - an idealistic death


Friday, September 29, 2006
Santhara - an idealistic death
I knew there existed a tradition of fasting-to-death voluntarily in Jain religion, not as a reaction to any extraneous reasons of poverty or disease, but for spiritual reasons. People commit suicide due to suffering or disappointment. But the fasting-to-death tradition in Jainism is different. I am reminded of the teaching of the Bhagavad Gita on what constitutes good and bad action – the answer being motive. In the case of Santhara (I am actually hearing this word for the first time, after the recent incident concerning a Jain lady), it is easy to see that it is part of the higher spiritual practice of the Jains and we must not ridicule it or see it as a crime. Of course, this practice can be misused and we might not know which the genuine cases are and which are being done with ulterior motives. But then the best of practices can be misused. So let us not call Santhara as suicides and instead see it in the larger context of a genuine and legitimate religious practice pursued by the sincerest of adherents to the path.

As for myself, I see it as one of the most idealistic of sanctions given by religion to motivate a pilgrim on the spiritual path - fancy giving up everything, finally food, all under the most stringent of self-determined tapas. He who is detached enough to watch death as it eats one away is verily the one who has transcended fear and known what truth is. The Jains indeed have the noblest of religions.

The message of Santhara is that there is nothing to fear. We all horde money to help us out of a difficult situation that may arise in the future. Our greatest fear is the suffering for want of food or medicine. But if we know that the perishing of the body cannot harm us, then where is the fear of the future? Thus we will cease being materialistic. We shall be fearless to pursue the spiritual path.

8:51:43 PM
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Thursday, September 28, 2006

Allah and beyond in the Vedas


Thursday, September 28, 2006
Allah and beyond in the Vedas
Dear Imran,

Thanks very much for your comments to my blog ‘Grow up Ruzan’ on Sept 26th. Your quoting Dr. Zakir Naik is great. He is a scholar, no doubt. But I am afraid his inability to beyond the One God concept, even theoretically, is a limitation. Nevertheless, he is a man of books and to be respected.

The Vedas talk of the concept of Brahman and this is actually a pre-creation stage. The Vedas also call God, the creator as Purusha and his creation as Prakriti. The Vedas also talk about the substratum, the undifferentiated whole, referred to as Brahman, whereupon the drama of creation-maintenance-destruction takes place. In the totality of Brahman, technically, there is no God the creator!

In response to your comments to my blog, I wish to say that I agree we all love our religion, but we should love other religions also, because all spiritual teachings are the heritage of entire mankind. Trying to prove that my religion is the best is childish. In comparing religions, certain things may be noted. But as the famous philosopher Jiddu Krishnamurthy said, comparisons are odious. It is almost like trying to say that my language is the best. (Not unlike saying, my mummy best!) Aren’t all languages equally expressive? There is no need for a person to know all the languages in the world to conclude that all the languages are equally expressive. All he has to do is to watch and listen to native speakers of languages and he will understand the universal truth that all languages are equally expressive. Likewise, Hindus say all religions are sacred and all religions lead to God. It is not necessary to be a scholar, dissecting all religions, to come to this conclusion. All you have to do is to stand in front of devotees in prayer or meditation to get a glimpse of the sacredness of all religions. Even then, the final conviction would be our own experience of our religion to conclude that others too would be having similar experiences with their religions. Why do the Muslims find this difficult to accept and go on claiming that theirs is the only true religion, or, worse, saying theirs is the only true God?

Reading the scriptures is fine, but we must not get stuck with mere words, we ought to get to the spirit of the message.

Hindus actually don’t follow scholars. Hindus have spawned an entity called Gurus. It’s to them that Hindus flock. They are more than scholars. Scholars are stuck with words. Gurus are those who have caught the spirit of the scriptures. They are verily the knowledgeable ones.

The real cross-checking of what we have read in the scriptures ought to be with the impact they have had on us. I have heard Dr. Zakir Naik on TV and he came across as a person who is well-versed with the letters of the scriptures but seem to have missed the spirit of the scriptures. He is more into hair-splitting than trying to awaken one to the spiritual message of all scriptures. Moreover, he just wants to prove Islam is the best religion. It is only a sense of lack that propels one to prove that his religion is the best. Spiritualism, however, cures one of that sense of lack.

Having said this much, I also wish to say that scholars like Dr. Zakir Naik can lead Muslims to take a peep into the scriptures of others and eventuality discover that truth is one, though expressed variously.

I am taking the liberty to comment on Dr. Naik’s commentary of selected verses in the Vedas and Quran in his attempt to prove that Vedas too preached that there is only one God.

For clarity while reading, I am colouring Dr. Naik’s quotations and his commentary in blue.

CONCEPT OF GOD IN HINDUISM. The most popular amongst the Aryan religion is Hinduism.

Dr. Naik starts by considering Hinduism as a single religion, whereas Hinduism is actually a confluence of innumerable religious expressions.

Also, he calls Hinduism an Aryan religion. The religious and spiritual culture that is denoted by the word Hinduism, being expressions of the universal urge of man to delve within to his divine potential, is not restricted to any so-called race. Its traditional name, Sanatana Dharma (the Eternal Harmony) is very indicative of the universality of Hinduism.

Common concept of God in Hinduism: If you ask a common Hindu that how many Gods he believe in, some may say three some may say thirty three, some may say a thousand while some may say thirty three crore i.e. 330 millions.

These 33 crores Gods do not cause a Hindu disharmony while even a suggestion of a single other God besides Allah causes the Muslim great anguish. Why? Because the Hindu knows that these 33 crores Gods are only the expressions of the ultimate truth, which truth is not separate from our own potential. The Muslim on the other hand, is forbidden to express God except as he believes Allah has instructed him in the Quran. A God separate from him has to be submitted to, no questions asked. The Hindu is free to be creative and expressive, for he knows that in his fullest potential, he himself is that God. Tat Tvam Asi.

But if you ask this question to a Hindu learned man who is well versed with the Hindu scriptures, he will reply that the Hindu should actually believe and worship only one God.

No learned Hindu would say that we SHOULD believe and worship only one God for the simple reason that he does not see the worshiping of many Gods out of sync with man’s pursuit of spirituality, which is the purpose of religion.

Difference between Islam and Hinduism is ‘s’ (Everything is ‘God’s’ - everything is ‘God’): The major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim is that the common Hindu believes in philosophy of Pantheism i.e. everything is God, the tree is God, the sun is God, the moon is God, the snake is God, the monkey is God, the human being is God. The Muslims believe that everything is God’s. God with and apostrophe ‘s’. Everything belongs to God, the tree belongs to God, the sun belongs to God, the moon belongs to God, monkey belongs to God, the human being belongs to God. Thus the major difference between the Hindus and the Muslims is the apostrophe ‘s’. The Hindu says everything is God. The Muslim says everything is God’s, God with an apostrophe ‘s’. If we can solve the difference of the apostrophe ‘s’, the Hindus and the Muslims will be united.

Dr. Naik’s differentiation between Islam and Hinduism as being just the ‘s’ is legitimate and honest. In Hindu parlance, Islam is a Dwaitic (dualistic) religion whereas Hinduism goes deeper to the Advaitic (non-dualistic) experience. When we say Islam is a Dwaitic religion, it is not to belittle Islam thereby. A vast majority of Hindus also celebrate dualism. And yet, all Hindus know that this is not the ultimate. The ultimate is merging in God. Islam does not go this deep (with the exception of the Sufis). It merely waits for God to judge everyone and dole out eternal punishments or rewards. The Hindus who are Dwaitic of course do not believe in a line up and judgement scenario. Why? Thanks to the sublime influence of Advaita among the masses of even Dwaitic Hindus, what with the teachings of Karma and rebirths.

I like Dr. Naik’s saying that if we resolve the apostrophe ‘s’ problem, Hindus and Muslims can unite. However, I wish to tell him that Hindus and Muslims are disunited only because Islam insists that it is the only true religion and not because there is a difference of opinion on this or that. Hinduism celebrates differences of opinion, for they see it all as man’s various expressions. So let the Muslim believe that his religion is a great religion, his scripture is God’s own words and Muslims are the most blessed folks in the world. No harm in all that. We have a lot of Hindus who believe the same thing about their religions too. But Muslims must accept that other religions are also legitimate. Then and only then can there be a joint celebration of each others religion and thus real unity.

Hinduism has proved this historically. Take Vaishnavism and Shaivism. In the Islamic milieu, there would have been bloodbaths between the followers of Vishnu and Shiva. But look how they have amalgamated into one religious culture, so much so that outsiders would be surprised to know that they are actually two different religions with two different and distinct Gods, each God with his own set-up! And more surprising would be Shaktism, whose followers believe that God is actually a Goddess! And their followers do not even follow the Vedas. They follow the Tantric scriptures. So much difference and yet so much unity. That’s Hinduism. Unity in diversity.

The Holy Qur’an says, "Come to common terms as between us and you", which is the first term? -That we worship none but Allah, so lets come to common terms by analyzing the scripture of the Hindus and the Muslim.

Dr. Zakir Naik quotes the the Holy Qur’an to say “Come to common terms as between us and you”.

How great. But the Islamic milieu has transformed it to mean, “Let there be a common ground by all means and let that common ground be Islam.”

I. Bhagwad Geeta 7:20. The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagwad Geeta. Bhagwad Geeta mentions in Chapter 7, Verse 20, "Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires worship demigods" that is "Those who are materialistic, they worship demigods" i.e. besides the true God.

I wish to say that when the Bhagwad Geeta refers to demigods they only mean the reference point of a person who has not fully awoken to the truth of who he is. This is in consonance with the ultimate hallmark of Hinduism – that truth is one but the wise express it variously. A person who has not fully awoken to the spiritual truth is not a lesser person, just as a child is not a lesser person than a grown-up. So a materialist is he who has not fully awoken to his destiny and he will therefore worship God at his level. This is what is called ‘various expressions’. The Gita does not call a child stupid. But when the child does not grow-up, then the Gita says such a person is Baleshu – a childish person.

II. Upanishad are also one of the sacred scriptures of the Hindus. In Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 6, Section 2, Verse 1 it is mentioned "He is one only without a second". Similar to what is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 1, "Say he is Allah one and only".

May I ask who is one without a second? Not a God who can be distinguished as being a Creator separate from his creation. In separation, there is a second. Only when everything is God (or when there is nothing, not even God – the shoonya concept of the Buddhists), is there one without a second.

I wish to say that when the Quran enjoins to say that he is Allah one and only, it has reached only the penultimate Dwaitic situation of Hindu culture. The ultimate is the Advaitic situation, which the Sufis understand.

The Hindu believes everything is pervaded by God. So the Hindu takes a stone and chisels it to be the centre of divinity in his life and the life of the community. It is just like electricity being everywhere but requiring a bulb to bring the light to our sensory level.

III. In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 6, Verse 9 it is mentioned "Of him there is neither parents nor lord". "Of him there is no master in the world, no ruler, nor is there any mark of him. He is the cause, the lord of the lords of the sense organs; of him there is neither progenitor nor lord". Similar message is given in Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 3, "He begets not, nor is he begotten".

Absolutely. The Vedas here are talking of the undifferentiated state of Brahman, not the state of creator-created separation, where Ishwar or Allah or God and His creation come in.

The Quran in similar verses is also talking of Allah in the Brahman state. The moment Allah creates, then he is no longer in the Brahman-state. Then he is in the Ishwar state (in Hindu parlance). This differentiation of Allah into two states, His state before creation and His state after creation is not clear in Arabic because the same word Allah is used in both before-creation state and after-creation state. Sanskrit however has used two different words for the before and after stages and thus the clarity on this in Hindu commentaries. (Brahman is not to be confused the Brahma the creator in mythical parlance.) Brahman is not the creator. Brahman is the substratum on which the drama of creation manifests and subsides in aeons of time.

IV. "His form is not to be seen; no one sees him with the eye. Those who through heart and mind know him as abiding in the heart become immortal". Similar message is given in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Anam, Chapter 6, Verse 103, "No vision can grasp him. But his grasp is over all vision: he is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things".

The Vedic verse quoted above appears reflected picturesquely in the battlefield of Kurukshetra when Krishna displays his Vishva-roop to Arjuna.

In both the above verses it will be noted that the speaker is not Purusha of the Vedas or Allah of the Quran. It is a Rishi who has reached the ultimate stage who is describing the state in the Vedas. Is it Mohammad who is saying the words quoted in the Quran? Or is it Allah telling Mohammad to proclaim thus? Please clarify.

V. In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 19 it is mentioned "There is no likeness of him whose name is great glory". Similar message is given in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 4, "And there is none like unto him". Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11 and also in Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11, "There is nothing whatever like unto him".

The curious thing about the two verses that were received in two different milieus is that in the case of the Veda the “He” still remains unknown and mysterious whereas in the Quran the “He” has a name – Allah. Proving once again that the Vedas are talking of the undifferentiated Brahman whereas the Quran is talking of the differentiated God, where the totality is differentiated between the creator and his creation.

We must bow humbly to all the scriptural verses quoted. How potent in force the verses are, both of the Vedas and the Quran. They are indeed mystical poetry. Very Hindu in fact. Hindu mystics talk like this.

VI. It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 32, Verse "There is no image of Him." It further says as "He is unborn, He deserves our worship" "There is no image of him whose glory verily is great. He sustains within himself all luminous objects like the sun etc. may he not harm me, this is my prayer. As he is unborn, he deserves our worship".

This again is at the Brahman stage, a purely undifferentiated stage, called for only of the highest mystics. For us ordinary folks, the Vedas prescribe idol-worship. Just as Allah has prescribed for Muslims the form of the Kaa’ba. The Muslims know that they are really not offering their worship to Ka’aba but it is only an aid to help them to focus on the prayer to Allah. Likewise the Hindus too know that the idols are an aid to worship Ishwar and then go beyond idols and Ishwar and reach the stage of Brahman – knower of Brahman becomes Brahman.

VII. It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 40, Verse 9 "They enter darkness, those who worship natural things" For e.g. air, water, fire etc. It further continues and says, "They sink deeper in darkness those who worship Sambhuti i.e. created things", For example table, chair, idol etc. "Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti’s worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti are intent"

The above quotations taken by Dr. Naik are exhortations by the Vedas that we should not restrict our advancement in spirituality to level of objects. It has got nothing to do with BELIEF in One God. What is behind a tree, for instance? It is the bij mantra for that tree (akin to the physical seed). It is said that we may be born in a temple but we should not die in a temple. This only means that we have to go beyond everything, including even the Vedas, till we merge in the Brahman. (And Hinduism gives us as many lifetimes as we need for that.) This is the ultimate. What’s beyond the ultimate? (Well, this question may sound meaningless. But it is worthwhile to remember that there are Rishis in India even of late, like Aurobindo Maharshi, who thought at levels that are beyond the ultimate. Islam, as understood by the best of Muslims, stops at Allah, the sound vibration. It is yet to take its teachings to the level of silence. (But how is this possible, Mohammad has come and gone. No further editions of knowledge are possible.) The Vedas however have no such restrictive teachings. That is what the above verses mean. The full implication of the above verses can only be explained by a Guru.

I feel Dr. Naik is stopping at the brink of studying the Vedas. (But he can’t do it by himself, he needs a Guru. You can’t study the Vedas merely by making annotations as your read along!)

Dear Imran, you will notice in all of Dr. Naik's quotation of the Vedas, nowhere does the God of the Vedas proclaim that He is the only true God and He has appointed so and so as his final authentic messenger. Actually, the “speaker” of the Vedas is not God himself separate from his audience but the resonance of the eternal truths as received by the self-realized Rishi of yore. This is a marked difference between the passages you have quoted from the Vedas and the Quran. The God of the Quran enjoins loyalty and obeisance. Submission of his creatures to him (as if he failed programming that quality in men when he created them). In the Vedas, it is the expression of the Rishi in his higher consciousness of spirituality.

In the light of the above verses, what needs to be pondered over is why the Vedas did not spawn a culture of exclusivity whereas Islam did? What is the reason for this difference in consequence? I humbly suggest that this is because Islam separated the Creator and the created whereas Hinduism says that the Creator and his creation are one.

8:41:41 AM
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