Questioning the very first words of Allah.

Tuesday, January 30, 2007
Questioning the very first words of Allah.
Swami Dayanand Saraswati, founder of Arya Samaj and author of ‘Light of Truth’, is a famous historical personage. In Light of Truth, written over 100 years ago, he has in the 14th chapter examined Islam through the words of the Quran. He starts with the very first words of the Quran:

1. In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

Commentary:

The Muslims claim that this Quran is the Word of God, but it appears from the above passage that the author of this book was some person other than God, since had it been God himself, He would not have said: “(I begin this book) in the name of God etc.” He would have, instead, said: “I write this book for the instruction of mankind.” If it be said that by beginning His book in this fashion He means to teach men as to what they should say when about to do a thing, it cannot be true, since some men will do even sinful deeds in the name of God and thereby bring disgrace on Him. If Allah be merciful, why has He sanctioned that men should inflict great suffering on other creatures by killing them for their food? Are not these other animals innocent? Are they not His creatures? He should have also advised men to begin only good deeds in His name and not evil ones. Thus the passage (under discussion) is quite ambiguous. Should even such sinful acts as theft, adultery, untruthfulness in speech, be begun in God’s name? Very likely it is on account of this ambiguity that the Muslim butchers etc, mutter “In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the most merciful” at the moment of cutting the throats of cows and other animals.”

It is clear then that the Muslims do begin even evil deeds in the name of God. The Muslim God can never be called Merciful, because He shows no mercy towards those animals (whose slaughter He sanctions). If the Muslims do not know the true meaning of this passage, its revelation is of no use to mankind. But if the Muslims interpret it differently, we should like to know what its plain meaning is.

There are over 160 such commentaries on verses and assumptions in the Quran by the Swamiji. While I do not intend to quote all of Swamiji’s commentaries, I would, off and on, quote further commentaries, if I am permitted by my fellow-bloggers to do so. I must also add that Swamiji has thoroughly ‘critiqued’ Hinduism and Christianity too in Light of Truth, not on a mission of fault finding, but simply as an expression of his point of view with malice to none. Swamiji, as is well-known, was a champion of the Vedas and interpreted it with uncompromising scholarship.
7:27:04 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Comments
VINOD Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:30:42 PM
HiToday's world is in crisis because of books and interpretations about God. Best thing is to stop interpretations since all languages have limitations and days going by also changes the understanding of words of speech.Tiday in the name of God and belief's men are killing each other.vinod
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:41:22 PM
Excellent post, Venu. I appreciate.I quote from your post:"The Muslim God can never be called Merciful, because He shows no mercy towards those animals".Why only animals? Allah doesn't show any mercy towards kafirs/nonmuslims/idolators (Convert or die), a little mercy towards people of book (giving one more option of dimmitude).And followers of muhammad are slaughtering each other from just after his death to till date, in the name of allah, the most merciful and most companssonate, the all knowing only true god.
RADHAKRISHNAN.C Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:22:13 PM
Good response from infidel to your post Venu.Keep it up
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:37:00 AM
VENU ! What stupidity YOU and your Swami utter. The first words of the Quran revealed by the Arch Angel Gabriel to Prophet Mohammed was " IQRA !- Read ! Bismi Rabbik ! In the name of your creator ! Unless you understand the Qur'ans revealation and compilation- You cannot understand Venu Swamiji !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:40:32 AM
As for the only Chapter which does not start "In the name of ALLAH" -its called "Tauba" same in Hindi- Repentence ! All other subjects come under the instructions of ALLAH to man ! Only Tauba -Seking Forfiveness is left for Man. And HE forgives-He is merciful to forgive you for your sins-BIG and small BUT only if you SEEK forgiveness !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:44:13 AM
Killing among humans is by Politicians -statesmen- for GREED - Money. Even the first killing of Prophet Adam's' son Habal of his own brother Cabal was human jealousy !And GOD through a crow- showed him how to bury the body and be merciful even after that crime! That is the mercy Allah talks about !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:45:27 AM
Kiling among humans is by Politcians -statesmen- for GREED - Money. Even the first killing of Prophet Adam's' son Habal of his own brother Cabal was human jealousy !And GOD through a crow- showed him how to bury the body and be merciful even after that crime! That is the mercy Allah talks about !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:46:03 AM
Kiling among humans is by Politc ians -statesmen- for GREED - Money. Even the first killing of Propet Adam's' son Habal of his own brother Cabal was human jealousy !And GOD through a crow- showed him how to bury the body and be merciful even after that crime! That is the mercy Allah talks about !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:53:06 AM
Venuji- I would like to hear more about Swamiji deciphering the words of ALLAH - And I am sure I can correct your MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT ISLAM ! So go ahead create a blog everyday and I shall reply -in plain english -So all can read ! OK ???
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:57:07 AM
Seek forgiveness and it shall be accepted by ALLAH-that is the admonishment for all-even Muslims,.Just prayer or Charity OR HAjj OR Fasting will not complete ISLAM unless YOU Accept ALLAH and seek forgiveness from HIM !If a Muslim does all the above BUT is too pompous to seek forgiveness from Allah- he will surely go to HELL !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 12:59:48 AM
Infi infi Infi ! I did not think your arguments were so shallow ! Mercy is for man not animals. It is man who kills NOT ALLAH ! -either for food-or for sport-or sheer vanity ! He tramples ants out of sheer power. If it were the work of ALLAH then surely-Allah can make all the elephants crush Humans to pulp ! THINK !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:10:07 AM
Killing of Animals for food- by cutting the throat-though it looks barbaric- is to safeguard the health of the HUMAN-which is the best of GOD's Ccreation! By the removal of blood by cutting the jugular vein- the meat is hygenic without blood in it and fit to eat !No other reason-Is it NOT cruelty- to beat an animal to pull a man or a cart ??Why dont you condemn that ! !

Infidel Friday, February 2, 2007 6:04:05 PM
Muneer, what you are trying to say contain a vaste topic of debate. It cannot be done in a blog or two. You know that presently I am having debate with Human & Learner, the core issue is quran so far. We will be moving to islam, muhammad, allah in due course of time, if that debate continues. I cannot debate or comment at all the places at the same time, I have some limitaions too, specially availability of time. So have some patience and we will discuss this soon.
K.Venugopal Friday, February 2, 2007 9:28:52 PM
Muneerka, The Swamiji was considering the Quran. The first words of the Quran is what I have quoted. The words you have quoted may have been the first words of Allah to Mohammad, but they are certainly not the first or any of the words of the Quran. Please clarify.

K.Venugopal Friday, February 2, 2007 9:34:14 PM
Vinod, There's point in what you say. Nevertheless, language is such that it inspires us to express and enjoy expressions.

K.Venugopal Friday, February 2, 2007 9:39:01 PM
Dear Muneerka, Please tell me about the only chapter which does not start with the words "In the name of ALLAH" and why.

K.Venugopal Friday, February 2, 2007 10:00:53 PM
Dear Muneerka, You said "Even the first killing of Prophet Adam's son Habal of his own brother Cabal was human jealousy! And GOD through a crow - showed him how to bury the body and be merciful even after that crime! That is the mercy Allah talks about!" If Allah had inculcated mercy in Cabal, Habal would not have been murdered. Then He shows the murderer how to bury the body. Was it mercy too late?

K.Venugopal Friday, February 2, 2007 10:02:21 PM
Dear Muneerka, I would not find any need to seek forgiveness from God, who would in any case not be disturbed by even my most heinous crime. I would in such a situation allow the consequences to overtake me and not be a coward and escape the consequences via God.

K.Venugopal Friday, February 2, 2007 10:19:51 PM
Dear Muneerka, Why do you say, "Mercy is for man not animals"? Allah is ready to show mercy to man if he begs for forgiveness. Does He not show mercy to animals because they do not know how to beg for mercy?Jains and Brahmins teach not to kill animals for food, whichever way. Why don't you accept that such teachings are more humane than the Quranic permission to kill animals for food?

Is everyone a Muslim by birth?

Monday, January 29, 2007
Is everyone a Muslim by birth?
There was a blog on Monday, January 22, 2007 titled Rachel Noor-The Reversion Story, posted By Mohammed Irshad Hussain at 7:39:17 PM, to which I commented:
“This is a touching story and hope she would be happy in her new religion. But why has she called it a reversion when it was a conversion?”
Irshad4u in turn commented, “Think true think right It is not conversion it is reversion because Islam is God's religion as everyone is Muslim by birth.”
I think it sounds funny, though I am sure Irshad4u did not crack a joke and he has sincerely made a statement which is believes is true. It sounds funny because it is quite of a piece with Muslims’ claim that Islam existed even before Mohammad!
Dear Muneerka,
I did not question Irshad4u right to hold any religious believes he wants. As a Hindu, it is not in our blood to do that. But as a Hindu it is in our blood to question all assumptions as we are bound by no slavish decree.

Dear Infidel,
There is nothing to fear. Our basic reality is consciousness/awareness/wakefulness. Because of the palpable nature (on/off nature) of consciousness, if we are in awareness at the moment of death, that moment would be as wondrous as any we can experience in our awakened state. If we are unconscious, it does not anyway matter. Consciousness never suffers, only our lack of awareness causes suffering. When Krishna said in the Geeta what a person thinks at the moment of death that he becomes, there is quite a lesson there. At crucial moments we are not likely to think right (like Arjuna was not able to in the battlefield) unless we are seeped in the culture of consciousness. The technique of awakening to our full consciousness is meditation (the turning within). When we are seeped in the culture of meditation, then nothing can catch us off-guard, not even death. In any case, death brings new life, not eternal roast. But Paradise . . . ah! with Gardens of Eternity beneath which rivers flow where the late slave will be adorned with bracelets of gold, wearing green garments of fine silk and heavy brocade; reclining on a beautiful couch in a beautiful mansion, fed with fruits and drink of wine pure and holy and served by youths of perpetual freshness. How good the recompense!. . . Let’s ask Muneerudeen bhai to put in a good word for us, just in case . . .

8:43:28 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (8) Uncategorized

Comments
muneerudeen Monday, January 29, 2007 9:51:27 PM
VenujiYou have your beleifs and we have ours ! WE AGREED TO DISAGREE-REMEMBER ? iRSHAD 4 u COMMENTED ON OUR BELEIF-iIts upto you to take it or reject it. Every person has been given the power of understanding and what religion he chooses finally will matter !
dalit_voice Monday, January 29, 2007 10:03:01 PM
Mr Muneer i completely agree with you.Just because people are leaving hinduism for a better religion does not mean you will bring a legislation to curb it.There has to be freedom of following any faith.
WILLY JOWER Monday, January 29, 2007 10:51:41 PM
THIS MAY BE NICE JOKE "EVERYBODY A MUSLIM BY BIRTH". DO EMAIL THIS JOKE TO WORLD SO THAT PEOPLE LAUGH A LOT. IF SOMEBODY GETTING SERIOUS JUST THINK WHAT THE GREAT TERRORIST FACTORIES ARE MAKING, ARE THEY NOT MUSLIMS ??
Badmash Monday, January 29, 2007 10:59:49 PM
Terrorist+Muslim= Devil, Yes who ever born with devils quality they are muslim. so not everyone is Muslim by birth.
Accha Admi Monday, January 29, 2007 11:16:47 PM
Hey why do hindu woman worship P enis?That because they constantly need one LOL
lotus Monday, January 29, 2007 11:26:56 PM
Accha Admi, Your comment shows your frustration, when you cant answer logically.There can be many similar acidic, irrelevant comments on you also. So stick to the topic.
amardeep Monday, January 29, 2007 11:43:32 PM
hey Lotus, why pinpoint accha Admi only read other blogs also, they are equally bad as they are also illogical.
K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:07:28 AM
Dear Muneerka, Please see above.

Upper_caste Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:18:38 AM
hey Readers see this comment from Dalit_voice"Mr Muneer i completely agree with you.Just because people are leaving hinduism for a better religion does not mean you will bring a legislation to curb it.There has to be freedom of following any faith. "Kill these untouchables
perfektm Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:59:11 AM
you need to get your circumcision done, without that you are not muslim according to holy koran.... so everyone is born as a hindu :p
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:51:22 AM
Muslims need circumcision and shahada and chirtians need baptism. So one can not be muslim or christian by birth. May be hindu, Jain etc.
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:13:18 AM
I can't recall now, but there is something like, allah asks before birth to follow islam, he takes oath from person to born etc. May be Irshad or Muneer can help?
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:14:43 AM
Being born a Muslim-means being born pure- sinless- Then you grow you commit sins-repent-again commit sins-again repent-again commit sins-again repent ! "Summa aamanu Summa Kafaroo-Summa Aaamanu Summa Kafaroo-Summazdadu Kufran......
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:17:42 AM
When you die a Muslim-with Eiman-you are sinless and go to Heaven.But if you die without Eiman-as a follower or as a Non Muslim-you face the Lord's questions and his Judgement-in which we have no say !He forgives-those HE wishes and condemns those who follow the Shaitan !
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:26:38 AM
Circumsission -Shahada and Baptism are for this WORLD's firststeps in life-YOUR ABC's .Then you progress to degrees of Faith and become a PHd OR a success in life ! Thats the true Goal of Islam. A Phd for the next life while doing your thesis and working for it in this life !
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:46:28 AM
Muneer, do you mean to say that muslim means sinless? Please explain what is islamic definition of sin, eimaan, faith.If a nonmuslim (by birth)lives his whole life with great humanity, love and care for others, never hurt a person, always helpful to others, dies as non muslim, will he be considered as sinner by allah just because he was not muslim in his earthly life?Will a muslim be not considered as sinner even if he murdered, looted, raped and did all wrong things in his life, but dies as muslim?
RUZAN_SHAH Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:06:58 AM
VenuYes Islam was there before Mohammed & it sounds funny to you & you dont understand this simple fact because you are on the lower strata of spiritual ladder.Islam talks from Adam to Mohammed, its loud & clear in Quran that Allah sent thou messenger to all the races,all over on all the time.Adam was first prophet & Mohammed was last prophet & Islam is refinement of all the divine decrees.You need to be a muslim to understand certain trueth, you cant understand higher echelon when you are stranded in 84 lakhs feras.84 lakh fere fir ke achha bhala aadmi ghan chakkar ho jayega bhaiya...lolAnyway your claim is funny though...lolActually its not in your blood to question rationale if so why you never question sexual exploitation of Devdasi ?You never question stupid caste system by Manu ?You never question absurd & illogical puranas ?whats the logic of linga pooja ?Stop your non-senseYou people never think with open heart & mind thats why you vandalised & banned Mira Naiyyer's water just because it exposed the cruelty against helpless widows in the banks of your most holy siteWatch that movie its really shocking & it is nominated for Oscar award from Canada.Shame on you & your stupidity.
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:21:16 PM
Infi !Surely - A person like you - who has questioned the faith so deeply -and not accepted Islam -Even if you have been good ,human everything- Still will go to HELL ! Others who are unaware of Islam -may not - It is ALLAH's WILL AND HE ALONE CAN JUDGE !We are only Humans-his creation !

K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:46:13 PM
Dear Ruzan, Hinduism has, each generation, the option to look anew its heritage, chuck off useless package, cherish the valuable and continue in its journey to the divine. Islam, with no option, is stuck with middle-age baggage and seeks to curtail the journey to the divine due to its inability to move on with the dead-weight of its baggage. Islam has only one chance of survival that that is through a demographic victory. The increasing number of loyal foot soldiers (off unrestricted breeding) may put it in a position to vanquish militarily all kafirs. But alas, the compulsions of living in a modern world (not the creation of Mohammad), might not ever give Muslims a demographic superiority.

K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:06:00 PM
Dear Muneerka, Whatever in truth Islam is, your interpretation as evidenced in your comment above, reveals that yours is a zombie like existence as far as spiritualism goes. But you might not be worried about it. Convinced of being Allah's loyal foot solider, the very faith would keep you living in fool's paradise quite comfortably.

Basdmash Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:30:03 PM
Very True- even its loud and clear in Nursery Rhymes about "Adams and Eva"(Tarzan & Zen) i didn't know if they were also Terrorist..lol
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:59:03 PM
Venu, you can see the compulsion in muneer's reply. He wrote:"A person like you - who has QUESTIONED the faith so deeply -and NOT ACCEPTED ISLAM -Even if you have been GOOD HUMAN everything- Still will go to HELL"So one has to accept islam since one has questioned whether quran is from god or muhammad. Even after proving that quran is from muhammad, I have to accept islam in any case, in order to save myself from allah's hell. How pathetic and how fear mongering?And you are discussing spiritualism with him? What was your word, oh yea, "ZOMBIE", doesn't it say all?
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:04:12 PM
AND venu, don't forget"NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION".You will see many times this "bits and pieces" and "out of context" verse to convince that islam is peace and tolerance.You have read analysis of this verse in detail, right. Get enlightened, venu, islam is the only true religion without any compulsion. Allah is all wise and he alone can judge (actually he had judged already before you and me were born, LOL).
K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:27:38 PM
Dear Infidel, I've just posted a piece of commentary by Swami Dayanand Saraswati, legendary founder of the Arya Samaj, on Quran. His critique on Islam (as well as Hinduism, Christianity etc) would be an eye-opener if you have not already read Light of Truth. Worth locating the book and pouring through it.
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:39:23 PM
And Venu, we should thank kafir's technology, the INTERNET, which just saved us from being beheaded. Do you think I would have been able to comment here today, when debate ended yesterday if it was not on internet?Anyway, be fearful of hellfire.LOL
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:52:24 PM
Thanks, venu.By now, you would have understood what "fallacy of circular reasoning" is.Who says muhammad is allah's prophet - its quran.Who wrote quran - muhammad.So who is self proclaimed prophet of islam - muhammad.And islam was on this earth from adam onwards.LOLwhat is the proof that adam was first prophet of islam - quran.and "You need to be a muslim to understand certain trueth" means submit your logic and rational thinking and your intellegancy (if you have being a non muslim), then only you will see the truth.
K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 8:41:23 PM
Dear Infidel, Please read my comment to you posted in my blog above.

RADHAKRISHNAN.C Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:33:35 PM
Dear Mr.Venugopal,you are wasting time and energy trying to convince these people who in the first place dont want to understand what freedon of religion is.They are so much obligated to their faith they dont want to hear others talk anything but their view point.Only had they known what religious freedom is they would atleast make an attempt to hear you.Under the circumstances all you say will be falling on deaf hears.think u know the three monkeys.It suits these people better
affu Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:42:28 PM
Hey Ruzan , i really appreciate your comment, keep itupNo matter how much u try to explain them with all possible rationale reasoning these people are determined not to leave the path of irrational thinkig.
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:06:03 PM
Great one, Venu. I don't want such a paradise, which is full of sex (72 vergins and eternal errection)and vine and gold but no divinity, no eternal peace, no moksha, no godThis is a dream shown by muhammad to his companions, (who only dreamed of such things in their earthly life), to sacrifies in the name of allah, to fulfill his own wishes. Hoories, vine, gold, silk, a kind of imaginary bribe to the blind followers to die for muhammad.
Krishna_bhumi Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:18:31 PM
Mr RADHAKRISHNAN.C you are right!We enjoy the freedom of religion, Our religion does not intefere in having sex with our mothers & sisters, killing innocent, taking part in dirty politics etc.we separeate religion from our day to day activities
affu Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:24:56 PM
Akhir kitna samjha jayega aap logo ko?Any d ick wil understand by reading various comments these people have made...
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:28:06 PM
Venu, we are irrational and they are rational, LOL.Then why can't they answer our questions rationally? Why always end up with AD HOMINEM, RED HERRING etc?
taklu Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:29:06 PM
Abay infidelpagal bhi apnay ko hosiar samajhta hai like you think.
Infidel Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:54:40 PM
Venu, you can see the WISDOM revealed by ZOMBIES. Need any more proofs? LOL
Badmash Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:27:08 PM
Lol Lol lolllll Infidel, good sense of humor, u just hit the bulls eyes ;), Thats wot m wondering why venu is still replyin to'em, see how nasty is Muslim i found one arab mms a muslim guy wrote quraan on his wife A$$ lolllll was funy sory it was . best place to preach loll
Sita Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:31:13 PM
The best god for woman to pray is P enis Bhagwan!! Dont you think Badmash. LOL LOL LOLI lik the shape of the Lingus, imagine how big must be the hole.LOL LOl LOL @##@
Infidel Wednesday, January 31, 2007 8:17:09 PM
this is an example of "tu quoque". From wikipedia:"Tu quoque (Latin for "You, too" or "You, also") is an argument that implies that a certain position is false and/or should be disregarded because its proponent fails to consistently act in accordance with that position; it attempts show that a criticism or objection applies equally to the person making it. It can be considered an ad hominem argument, since it focuses on the opposite party itself, rather than its positions.For instance, "Reverend Bob claims that theft is wrong, but how can theft be wrong if Bob himself admits he stole objects when he was a child?"If there are mistakes in hinduism or any other religion, how does that make islam perfect. Just because muhammad said so in quran (not god, for sure).Only islam claims to be directly from god, the only true religion.
manMan Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:31:07 PM
Mr Infidel iam not supporting any side but why you always against muslims?Cant you see the language of both sides.I wonder if you are paid to blog against muslim etc
Infidel Thursday, February 1, 2007 12:09:19 PM
I am not against muslims. I am against the claim that only one religion is true and others are fake, untill proven.Keep your wonder with you, I can't help you in that, sorry.
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:23:17 AM
Infi !Do I see two sides of you ! Your comments here are different from those in the debates ! Well we all have our bad moods I guess !Venuji I am waiting for more discourses from Swami Dayanand ji ! As for the foul mouthed-no one can clean it up for them !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:26:15 AM
Infi !So little you have all understood ISLAM. No one said ALL religions are fake-except ISLAM. Look at it this way- Islam is Windows VISTA and that doesnt make Win XP or WIN98 or WIN 95 fake ! It is onle NEW ! IMPROVED ! ALL religions are from GOD-your Eashwar-MY ALLAH ! BUT ISLAM is the LASTEST ! SO UPDATE yourselves !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:28:29 AM
Infi "Tu quoque" is too much for me.But in simple english- reverend Bob's story.When Rev Bob was a kid he did not understand theft.Now he understands it and if he commits theft-then he is sinning ! Thats the concept of ISLAM- Learn the truth and practice it !Same with everyday life. You know you cannot work with WIN 95- then Upgrade to Win Vista ! Easier than "tu quo que" Right folks !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:42:19 AM
In fact even today I think HINDU SWAMIS- PRAY in the NUDE -Just the way they were created -in front of their creator ! So when they go there-why should they be ASHAMED ! We ALL dont go to HEAVEN dressed in ARMANI suits -Just remember that ! Its only the wickedness in MAN's mind that makes us clothe ourselves on earth !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:53:39 AM
Infi - you said above-No compulsion in Religion- Allah knows even before we were born !LOL!Let me rephrase this ! Baghwan knows what you do- who your parents are-when you were conceived-everything- and he made you be born in a Hindu family as a human -not a dog or cat or crow- Right ? So whats the problem in just substituting your Baghwan for OUR ALLAH ???and then read it !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:54:27 AM
Infi !Again -on your bribes of 72 Virgins and thrones of Silk and Brocade- Why -cant you wait for your rewards.Oh those are evreyday rewards you get for a few bucks from Prostitiutes -Right ? So whats so great about wine and silk. Its forbidden now BUT rewarded if you want to splurge after you are victorious !You dont spray champagne till you WIN a race !Why ?
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:54:46 AM
Venuji ! My Zombie Life as a foot soldier of ALLAH is a thousand times better than Spiritually cleansing oneself by having a dip in the polluted Ganga-OR pouring milk over a phallus-or giving food to GODS-that dont eat them-OR adorn them with jewels-or sell LADDUS as GODS prasadam ! And the sightseeing of females at templs! Entertaining stuff really ! TRUE better than Zombie Life in HELL !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 1:59:36 AM
Those are similitudes NOT bribes ! BUT do you think your CREATOR cannot provide you ALL the promised things - IF you wanted it- AS a reward for your sacraficing those earthly pleasures now ? And you wont look at it the same way in Heaven - simply because the sense of being in the LAWFUL presence of your LORD EASHWAR - OUR ALLAH !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 2:04:17 AM
Venu- In your reply to RUZAN- you say that Only MUSLIMS are multiplying through unrestricted breeding and the demographics are differnt in modern times ! TRUE_ because Muslims DONT abort their female foetesus (NOT MURDER?)They dont stab you at the BACK and fight with bare hands-against the mightiest military demographics of Modern warfare _ AND YET WIN !Thats what ALLAH's Foot soldiers do !
muneerudeen Friday, February 2, 2007 2:25:50 AM
I guess this is getting too much with comments- So let me give a chance to others to answer and I'll come back and correct your misconceptions in a few days ! TATA !

ruizvan Friday, February 2, 2007 9:57:42 PM
Very very well said Muneer bhai,After reading your comments i am reminded of an Ayah in the Quran were Allah says in Surah nahl:125. Invite (mankind, O Muhammad ) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islâm) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'ân) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. And also the next ayah:126. And if you punish (your enemy, O you believers in the Oneness of Allâh), then punish them with the like of that with which you were afflicted. But if you endure patiently, verily, it is better for As-Sâbirin (the patient ones, etc.) but still the non-believers wrongly state that "Allah has asked muslims to kill all the non muslims".

K.Venugopal Saturday, February 3, 2007 11:10:08 AM
Dear Muneerka, You said, "No one said ALL religions are fake except ISLAM." If you can prove that Islam and its interpreters say that other religions are also true just like Islam, then our debate ends. Because this is the position I am trying to convince you and this is the Hindu position. You also said, "ALL religions are from GOD-your Eashwar-MY ALLAH!" This too I agree. But when you say, "ISLAM is the LASTEST!" I disagree. For something that is 1,400 years old can hardly be the latest, considering that we've had the Sikh religion, Bhahai faith, the Sai phenomenon, to mention just a few, all after Mohammad. Worse still, Islam holds that it is the LAST word of God. This is the hollowest claim ever made in the history of religions. Islam, having restricted God in space by saying that He is separate from his creation, also restricts Him in time by saying that He stopped talking in the middle ages!

K.Venugopal Saturday, February 3, 2007 11:17:58 AM
Dear Muneerka, Your example of Win 95 and Win Vista would see Bill Gates upgrade from Vista without a 1,400 years and still continuing hiatus. Has Allah lost even Bill Gate's creativity in upgradation?

K.Venugopal Saturday, February 3, 2007 3:17:05 PM
Dear Muneerka, I am unable to follow the context in which you talk about Hindu Swamis praying in the nude. Please elaborate.

K.Venugopal Saturday, February 3, 2007 3:18:01 PM
Dear Muneerka, You ask, "So what's the problem in just substituting your Baghwan for OUR ALLAH?" It’s Hindus who say "Allah, Ishwar tere naam". The idea is not substitution but inter-changeability because the meaning of both the words are not different. Would you as a Muslim agree to this?

K.Venugopal Saturday, February 3, 2007 3:48:19 PM
Dear Muneerka, Promises of virgins, thrones, silk and brocades are from the Quran. If you think they are "everyday rewards you get for a few bucks from prostitutes", are you saying the Quran is promising you prostitutes in Paradise?

K.Venugopal Saturday, February 3, 2007 4:54:32 PM
Dear Muneerka, About zombie life as foot-soldiers, dip in polluted Ganga . . . well, it takes everything to make up life. Let us live and learn and let our conclusions only be a take-off for newer learnings. Let us not say that knowledge ends and the last word has been arrived at, whether in the Vedas or the Quran.

K.Venugopal Saturday, February 3, 2007 5:39:22 PM
Dear Muneerka, You say that our sense of being in the LAWFUL presence of "your LORD ESHWAR - OUR ALLAH would transform matters in Heaven. No doubt. But does that mean that Allah is not present on earth or that his presence is unlawful? I am sure not, but the way you've put things, it sounds that way.

infidel Sunday, February 4, 2007 12:23:38 AM
Munner, are you trying to deviate from islam? Isn't islam is the only true religion, allah is only true god and quran is allah's word? If islam is not the only true religion then other religions are also true. That means god of other religion is also true and other religious scriptures also true as they guide us to god. Please clarify.

infidel Sunday, February 4, 2007 12:31:07 AM
Great one, Venu. Could not say better than that.You can see, what is the effect of sticking to 7th century idiology. Since quran is the last word of allah, nothing can go after that. Nothing is even permissible to think beyond quran, because allah is all knowing and he put everything in quran for all man kind, all times and all places. So if you are trying to find/research/eveolve other than quran said, actually you are going against allah's words,'coz that can not be reformed.That is the reason that all islamic countries are so poor and backward (except oil-rich countries). Perfect example was afganistan under atliban rule.Just think, if whole world turn into ummah, ie everybody is muslim, there will be no advancement, nosc. discoveries (you actually don't need any, all miracles are in quran), no medical research, etc. In other world, in 21st century, we will be vertually living in 7th century barbarism.

K.Venugopal Sunday, February 4, 2007 9:19:25 AM
Dear Infidel, It can be safely said that the whole issue between Islam and other religions is that Islam says that Mohammad brought the last word of Allah. I would be comfortable with every other word in the Quran because, being of a philosophic bend of mind, I would be able to put it in proper perspective. The problem is with one single word in the Quran. I am not getting into the etymology of the word but in English translation the word 'seal' has been used. A particular Quranic verse says that Mohammad is the seal of prophets. Even among the Muslims, the word seal is understood as meaning, say, 'excellent', i.e., Mohammad is the most excellent of the prophets or even, the greatest of the prophets. But somewhere along the line, or at the beginning of the line, the word seal was understood as 'the last', as in 'sealed and delivered' - no more changes are possible. According to me, it could mean that Mohammad was the last in a series of ‘disciplic’ successions, from Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus to Mohammad. This is probable when we consider that the all knowing Quran has not mentioned Hinduism – Rama, Krishna, Shiva, Devi or any of a whole host of them, including Mahavir and Buddha. . It has not touched even on the Vedas, though now-a-days Muslims claim that the Vedas have spoken of Mohammad! Speaking of successions and the last of it, Satya Sai Baba has said that there would be one more avatar of him to come, meaning that the series which began with Shirdi Baba and continued with Satya Sai Baba would end with Prem Baba. I do not think Satya Sai Baba said anywhere that after Prem Baba, the deluge! The same goes for, say, the Swami Narayan sect, which has a disciplic succession. So in that way, Mohammad may be last. But to say that Mohammad got the last word of God and we have now only to wait for the deluge (the last judgement in this case) is the reason why Islam, as is expounded, sticks out like a sore thumb in the world of religion.

Dear Ruzan, Saudi King refused to go to Gandhi Samadhi, you refuse to sing Vande Mataram.

Dear Ruzan, Saudi King refused to go to Gandhi Samadhi, you refuse to sing Vande Mataram.

Dear Ruzaan Shah,

About Mahatma Gandhi - what respect did the King of Saudi Arabia, the custodian of the Holy Mosques and exemplar of Islam, show when he came to India? He became the only head of state not to go to the Gandhi Samadhi because he said that it is against Islam. You follow your Islamic King by not singing Vande Mataram. And still have the gumption to doubt the patriotism of RSS, who remember Mahatma Gandhi in their daily prayers.
You don’t have to give 500 years to the RSS to reduce the Muslims to micro-minority. With the Sunni leaders declaring Shias as non-Muslims, Islam is on the brink of being reduced to Sunnism.
The widespread understanding is that Muslims burnt the bogey in Godhra and invited all the riots that took place in Gujarat. Let’s wait for the Shah Commission report.

I am happy that you are proud of India’s secular fabric. Has any Muslim country got such a secular fabric? Does Islam itself envision such a secular fabric? Islam believes that it alone is the true religion and all others are false. Please understand that India is secular because Hinduism is secular – it accepts plurality of approaches to and expressions of God.
Ruzan, are you on to name dropping? If you know Modi, I know the Sultan of Oman!
12:10:17 AM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

amardeep_malaysia Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:02:31 AM
hey Venu,Before commenting do your homework first.Dont forget to mention Malaysia, Indonesia, Maldives etc.

K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:14:15 AM
Dear Amardeep, Malaysia has loaded everything in favour of whom they call Bhumiputras - the local Muslims. Indonesia was for a long time under military rule. Maladives? Too tiny to matter.

arvind36 Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:22:35 AM
Agreed fully with you Mr Venu.Responsibility to maintain cordial relations lies on all communities concerned. Any group, community looking down upon other is bound to provoke a reaction. Hitler viewed his own race as the 'most superior'and killed millions.This invited strongest reactions from others.So, any religion/community which tries to look down upon others is spoiling the cordiality of society.

amardeep_malaysia Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:28:10 AM
Hey venu,I have been living in Malaysia from last 30 years and have never felt that iam an outsider or an Hindu. Its a much better democracy than India, i call india a fake democracy.We Hindus allways give examples of countries like pakistan when refering while forgetting Good points of Islam.Come out from that shell which prohibits rational thinking!!
jj Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:50:02 AM
this is a wonderful article by venu which shows the hypocrisy of the so called goal of islamic universal brotherhood
K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:17:16 AM
Dear Amardeep, I was born and brought up in Malaysia and did much of my schooling there. How come you are not feeling that you are a Hindu? Have they castrated you? Please do not insult India by calling her democracy fake. Democracy in India means not just electoral democracy. The very psyche of India is democratic thanks to the vision of Hinduism.

muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:00:35 AM
RuzanjiTHERSS pray daily for their sin of killing the Mahatma ! And they blame the Saudi King for not bowing to their VICTIM ! They sell their land to go to Saudi to make money ! Thats the attachment to the Mathrubhumi !
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:03:46 AM
Where is hypocrisy here.THERSS killed Mahatmaji AND now they are singing his praises !
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:08:28 AM
As for widespread beleifs of the SHAH Commission report or the Babri Masji report- they willa ccept it if it favors them ! Even Advanji said it about the Sri Krishna report !
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:11:59 AM
Hindusim is so brioad minded that they demolish Babri Masjid-break shops that sell valentine day cards- BUT if muslims do something to protect themselves-they are labelled anti national !The Old proverb-You cannot straighten a dogs tail with a pipe !
jay Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:47:13 AM
You have mu$lim n@row minded man im sure u been educated in backword fanatic muslim madera$$$.
jay Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:47:25 AM
dont bring rss yoy are just atacking just they r hindu.this is why muslims are carvers for the country they live in
ruzan_shah Tuesday, January 30, 2007 7:56:33 AM
Here you go crazy again Venuas usualWe are debating patriotism & you deviated & brough-in saudi king.....lolCant you stay straight ?Oh ya your pantheism & janm janmantar crap makes you do that all the time.Anyway we are on the straight path & we talk straight & direct.No escapism of avatars...huhOk I dont care about any king & he is not Indian so leave him alone. You cant enforce your whims on others.RSS was banned by Government of India twice for anti-social activities & they literally did shastang dandvat to Indira's feet for amnesty as their founder savarkar did to queen of England and if you still think Indian government was so stupid that they banned your patriots khakhi idiots then you are the biggest idiot.About name dropping you better go & ask your God father Modi that who I am, dont go into that dude I told you I know him more than you.Why do you want to wait for your puppet shah, Banerjee report is there but you dont want to accept your heinous crimes.Your god father Modi was refused by UK & USA, no entry for criminals.Check Amnesty InternationalHuman Rights WatchBritish Parliamentary Delegation ReportIf you can read go & check all those reports by non-muslims on Gujarat genocide. You are pathological liar.If you & your modi are innocent why you guys banned Final Solution & Parzaniawhy ?Go and ask Vinod Sharma & Raju Dholakia a Hindu Gujarati.Mail me your adress & I will sent you DVD of Final Solution by Vinod Sharma, your evil deeds are exposed by these Hindus who are real god fearing Hindus & not those criminals & killers who are self-proclaimed psuedo Hindus, people like you are actually shame on Hinduism.
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:09:26 PM
JAY !I have never been to a Madrssa and at 50+ I am still learning -because guys like you attack Islam for nothing ! So please be frank and DONT be a Hypocrite !THERSS killd Mahatmaji and now they are praying for him ! JOKE OR EYEWASH !
muneerudeen Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:11:42 PM
RuzanjiDONT ! Please dont mail any reply to Anil Joshi-Prudent ,Venuji etc- UNLESS you have a strong security system on your computer and have Firewall everything. I replied and my computer got hacked- BUT there is nothing in my Data which they want !So be careful when replying to EMails !
K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:10:56 PM
Dear Muneerka, I think you are getting paranoid. Don't fear. I won’t harm you (or your computer) physically. But if you are harmed psychologically that's not my fault. Belief is not enough. It is still dependence. You have to be spiritual - become independent. Then you will never be hurt psychologically.
K.Venugopal Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:43:09 PM
Dear Ruzan Shah, Comments in my blog.

Dear Radhakrishnan, Let's see in a new light

Wednesday, January 24, 2007
Dear Radhakrishnan, Let's see in a new light
Dear Radhakrishnanji, I agree with what you have written about our reckless politicians. If you wish to, we could explore the possibilities of solving the problem or seeing the whole issue from a fresh angle. This would require a couple of blogs and comments exchanges. If you are game, let’s begin for what it is worth.

To solve a problem we need to know what the problem is and where the problem is, only then can our solutions hit the mark. While we can easily list the problems we need to solve to make our lives better, we normally make a mistake in assuming that the problems are ‘out there’. According to me, all problems have their genesis in the restless minds of individuals. This restlessness is something that has grown upon us due to the culture of ‘lack’ with which we are brought up. Parents would say, study hard son, or you will fail in life; work hard son, or you will not come up in life etc. By the time we are grown up and ready to face the world, we only see challenges to be overcome if we are to succeed. Challenges never seem to go away. If we overcome one, by say getting a good job, then there is the challenge of rising in our profession. And then there is the question of status, prestige, competition, our children’s future etc. etc. All these cause unceasing restlessness in us and a conviction that life is all about solving problems.

The truth is, as I have understood it, you can’t solve problems for the simple reason that there are no problems! We see problems because we have been taught to see wrongly. We have to learn to see within ourselves. What does it mean to ‘see within’? We will have to become a witness to the goings-on in our mind. Whatever our five senses conveys to us, it is the understanding of it generated by the mind that is relevant to us. We have to watch our mind. One technique that would be useful would be to talk to ourselves silently, thereby making language our inner eye. We take language for granted because we have grown up with it. Language is a bridge gifted to us by consciousness to lead us to higher consciousness.

I shall write more if you think I am not talking gibberish. Nothing conclusive from me - just an exploration, a joint-exploration with all who would participate, into the possibility of making our minds restful and thereby seeing everything (including our politicians!) in a new light and in a more truthful light.

10:01:56 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Ruzan Shah, in spite of Modi-bashers like you, Muslims will establish a good rapport with RSS

Wednesday, January 24, 2007
Ruzan Shah, in spite of Modi-bashers like you, Muslims will establish a good rapport with RSS
Dear Ruzan Shah,
Talking about certificates, let me refer you to Arnold Toynbee, considered by many as one of the greatest historians and who was not from the RSS. He has certified that Muslims are either an intolerant majority or a turbulent minority.

About Gujarat violence, may I remind you about its genesis? The people of Mahatma Gandhi's own country decided to give non-violence a go-by when Muslims burnt to death a compartment full of pilgrims returning from Ayodhya. Do not for a moment think that Narendra Modi arranged it. If Hindus with state powers were to organize riots, Muslims would become a micro-minority in India.

The RSS is not bothered about your hate for them. RSS is engaged in uniting Indians in the name of Bharath Mata and they are not expecting people like you who think Allah has ordered them not to sing Vande Mataram to know anything about patriotism.

Muslims will eventually see the sanity of demonstrating loyalty to India by defeating pro-Pakistan forces in India. A time will come before long when Muslims would on their own volition hand over terrorist elements to the law and from then onwards RSS would be proud to say long live Indian Muslims. It would only be natural considering that RSS is first and foremost a patriotic organization. So in spite of people like you who harp on the lie that Modi organized a pogrom of Muslims in Gujarat, the Muslim community will establish a good rapport with the RSS.
6:33:29 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Comments

RADHAKRISHANAN.C Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:11:11 PM
Well said Venugopal.That NDTV allows these people,air their views,is surprising.These blogs by the minorities are provocative and will cause untold hardship to those silent minorities,who are not for provocation,but want to live amicably.Earlier the fools are able to understand the better for them.Otherwise their days are numbered.

RADHAKRISHANAN.C Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:31:09 PM
Well said Venugopal.That NDTV allows these people,air their views,is surprising.These blogs by the minorities are provocative and will cause untold hardship to those silent minorities,who are not for provocation,but want to live amicably.Earlier the fools are able to understand the better for them.Otherwise their days are numbered.

jj Thursday, January 25, 2007 1:49:29 AM
there are many muslims in the bjp like arif mohammed khanmuqtar abbas naqvisyed shahnawaz hussainamong the muslim intellectualmohammed currimbhoy chagla was a great admirer of the RSSYOU CAN WAKE UP THOSE WHO ARE REALLY SLEEPINGBUT YOU CANT WAKE UP THOSE WHO ARE REALLY ACTING

sage Friday, January 26, 2007 9:10:59 PM
when you give examples of others, be little like them. you all muslims survive on hindus. so be indian and try not be antinational like most of you are. do not try to harm india by living in india.

muneerudeen Friday, January 26, 2007 10:44:03 PM
I havenot read what Ruzan Shah wrote -BUT if RSS /BJP & Modi can achieve anything by inciting religious violence within INDIA their Rath Yatras and other trips to places like Kerala and distribute trishuls as momentos-where can there be any rapproachment between RSS and NDF - Venuji ???

To Patriotic Muslim - Do not question the wisdom of Allah? - updated

Sunday, January 21, 2007
To Patriotic Muslim - Do not question the wisdom of Allah?

I had commented the following in response to Jumbo Jumbo's blog on the fundamental difference between Islam and Sanatana Dharma on Sat, Jan 20 at 12:34:56 AM
K.Venugopal Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:01:29 PM
I have heard a Muslim speaker say that Mohammad himself always existed and he was with Allah even before creation. One message for mankind at the beginning would have been enough for all mankind, when it is said that Adam was the first prophet. Why did Allah have to send messengers after messengers? Was it that the people refused to hear Him or because His words could not stand the test of time? If it is claimed that Islam was there even before Mohammad, does it mean 1. that Islam was functioning then without the Quran? 2. that Islam failed (and therefore Mohammad had to be sent) because there was no Quran in those times? 3. or Allah failed in not sending the Quran with Prophet Adam himself? Anyway, now that we have the perfect book of the Quran, why is not Islam working? The majority of people do not accept Islam. Does it mean Allah would be forced to send another messenger and a new Quran? It would not be morally right for Him to judge the people without first having properly instructed mankind with the proper scripture – one scripture acceptable to all mankind - would it? Or does Allah use the yardstick of only what is acceptable to Him and not mankind?
Mr. Patrotic Muslim commented in turn the following:
patriotic muslim Saturday, January 20, 2007 10:30:04 PM
Venu bhai,There was a huge period of gap between Adam (pbuh) and Noah (pbuh). The first signs of idolatory started during the period of Noah (pbuh). Thats when Noah was inspired by Gabriel to build the ark. Quran says in every age we have sent the messengers to give glad tidings to the people. Even Noah's son was among the disbelievers and paid the price in the floods. Yes you are right, people refused to hear the messengers and continued their blasphemy.Yes, Islam was functioning without the Holy Quran. Every messenger of God received revelations like Psalms, Torah, Bible and in every age we had disbelievers just like now where the majority of the population disbelievs.The Holy Quran is the compilation of all that happened before Prophet Mohammed plus more. It is said in the Quran that there will not be any more messengers or revelations from God till Day of Judgement.Quran contains so many issues zakath to poor, hajj, marriage, divorce, adultery, respect to parents, striving in the way of God etc..When just Adam and Eve were on earth, what purpose will the whole Quran serve? Please ponder over your question.God is God, the Creator, the Sustainer, everything...Who are we dumb human beings who are always dependent on every little thing in life to question the wisdom of the Creator!

In response to Patriotic Muslim’s comment, I offer the following comments:

Dear Patriotic Muslim,

We should not curb our quest of truth by saying, "Who are we dumb human beings who are always dependent on every little thing in life to question the wisdom of the Creator?". This is a modest attitude and in this aspect it is praiseworthy. "To question God" does not mean the arrogance to challenge God, but the sincerity to quest till we get at the truth. I think even the Quran enjoins us to use our intelligence in pursuing matters. So let us not assume the slavish posture of not questioning the master. In any case, Muslims do not take the same position vis-à-vis the Gods and scriptures of other religions – without even a study of them you are ready to say it is all gibberish or out of date, are you not?

If you say that when only Adam and Eve were living, the Quran served no purpose because it deals with matters pertaining to huge populations and complex issues, then surely the present age, when the world population is many times more than it was at the time of Mohammad and infinitely more complex, requires at least an updated version of the Quran, does it not? Why make do with one meant for the desert Bedouins of the 7th century?

Adam and Eve had in them what we also have to solve our individual problems and that is our consciousness. It is the pursuit of our greater consciousness and recordings of its experiences that has given to us the legacy of all our scriptures including the Quran and Adi Granth. Muslims should give up their efforts at foisting the Quran upon all mankind with spurious arguments of a one-and-only Allah, worship and idolatry. I think there is a huge hypocrisy vis-à-vis the meaning of worship and idolatry in Islam. We need to have a separate discussion on this.

Dear Learner,

You say there were many books sent out by Allah including the Bible but you also say that they have become corrupt. That is, no book has remained uncorrupt except the Quran. It would have been OK if the Quran is seen by everyone as a perfect book. In its fundamentals itself it appears flawed. For instance when Allah says there is no god but Him, isn't Allah able to understand that the intention behind all prayers are that it reaches an absolute force? How can any human being pray to any force other than Allah because Allah, according to the Quran, is the only absolute force? Then why did Allah allow his messenger to destroy idols and idol worshippers? On the other hand if Allah wanted everyone to pray in a certain way, then that way would have been the way followed by Adam and Eve and all their descendents since. But it appears that the way of prayers that Muslims have adopted today is a new one initiated by Mohammad and not anything described in the Quran.

Then Allah says that Mohammad is his final messenger. In spite of the fact that the message itself is intact, many different schools of thought erupted immediately after Mohammad’s death. So the finality of the final message did not last even one generation.

My whole point is that Muslims ought to practice Islam to the best of the ability without trying to claim that it is the only true religion. It is nothing but one of the innumerable expressions of man's religious experiences that will continue to flower as long as man continues to live.

3:11:20 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (7) Uncategorized
Comments
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:44:50 PM
There are many Prophets who were sent with the book.I will name them,Noah, Abraham,Moses,David, Jesus and many more which only Allah knows.One basic thing remains the same, in the teaching of every book that is there is no God except Allah. and the other part was according to the Prophet existed at the time. like at the time of Noah, The kalma was "There is no God except Allah and Noah is the messenger of Allah."Like wise in the times of moses "There is no God except Allah and moses is the messenger of Allah."
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:51:05 PM
You know one more thing venu,The books which were left behind by Prophets were changed by the people who came after them on the instigation of Satan.and the books lost their originality and true essence.and thats the reason why Allah had sent so many messenger after messenger with the book.One more thing my comments are being accept in reverse way that is the one i wrote first is being made the last. so read accordingly.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:51:34 PM
Venu,you did not know anything about Prophets and books revealed to them.And you also don't know about the contemperory nature of Islam.You know one thing the basic structure of Islam cannot be changed but keeping in view the changing scenario of the world there are some leverages being given by the Muftis(the decree givers)I can't explain you this in detail.
anindita Sunday, January 21, 2007 3:57:18 PM
A warm hi to both of u.....i think both of u need to realise one thing.Discussing whether Islam was working without the holy quran or not is not going to help you people anyhow.there are thousands of people who are dying because of these religious conflicts,thousands of orphans who have no clue at all about the religion to which they belong.lets think about them for a while and try and do something about it.dont waste time on these petty issues please, its a request.

K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:03:41 PM
Anindita, no one is forcing you to read, do or believe anything. You have the freedom to do what you want. Let others do what they want with their time so long as they don't steal from your time. What may be petty for you may be vital for others. In fact, I believe taking to the spiritual path would solve many of the problems you have listed.

senselessCritic Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:06:45 PM
This discussion is senseless. I agree with you Anindita. But who can wake up a person pretending to sleep. Dear Anindita, you are selling icecream to ESKIMOS. Best of luck to you. These guys will not understand the pain of orphaned children--whose parents fell to the gunfire of religion-fron KOSOVO TO KASHMIR TO GODHARA AND GUJRAT.

K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:16:12 PM
Dear Senseless Critic, The pain of orphaned children is tragic. The pain left in the wake of terrorism is no less real, where anybody can be caught up. Narrow-mindedness of creed and intolerance of others' opinions lead to much violence. Let's create a situation where we can live and let live.

K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:50:32 PM
Dear Learner, I've commented on your comments but could not put it on the comments slot. Therefore please look up my main blog.

Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:05:58 PM
Adam and eve offered prayers definitely. But the way in which they offered we don't know.they may have offered the way as Prophet(SAWS)did.and yes you are correct the way how to offer prayer is not mentioned in Quran as Prophet has showed the people how to offer learning from Arch Angel Gabriel.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:25:02 PM
Dear Learner, Can you enlighten me on the relationship between Mohammad and Arch Angel Gabriel? Did not Allah directly give the revelations to Mohammad or was it always through Gabriel? Was Gabriel someone whom only Mohammad saw?
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:32:04 PM
Dear Learner, When I said the different schools of thought what I meant was the Shia, Sunni Sufi, Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi, Maliki etc. I must confess I do not know in what way these schools differ except that between Shias and Sunnis it is a major difference and Sufis have thoughts that go beyond Islam.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:33:34 PM
Elaborate on different school of thought erupted please. i did not get you. Please explain. Then i will answer you, based on your explaination.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:34:55 PM
Please look at the bottom of my blog for the answer as to schools of thought.
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:10:38 PM
All the messengers spoke through Arch Angel Gabriel..Only one messenger has spoken directly to God i.e Prophet Moses (pbuh) on Mt.Sinai (when the 10 commandments or the Torah wa revealed)...direct doesn't mean face to face..there was a barrier of light..Details can be seen in Chpater 20 Surah Ta-Ha..Mohammed (pbuh) always received the revealtions through Gabriel even during Meraaj (ascension to the heavens)..Gabriel came in different forms..many hadiths to this effect are there..He came as an old man. young person etc..Prophet's wives and companions saw and enquired and Prophet replied that it was Gabriel.
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:21:35 PM
The 4 schools of thought i.e Hanafi, Shafi, Maliki and Hambali..they are same..beleive in the Quran and Prophet's sunnah...The diff was in their interpretation of the hadiths and fatwas due to non availability of complete hadiths at that time as each one lived at a diff period of time, in diff part of the world..They have said"If you find a better fatwa based on hadith then throw our fatwa against the wall"...there was no diff in their beliefs..They were all muslims and true believers.
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:29:11 PM
Reg. Shiism ..they have deviated beliefs...they give more importance to Ali (4th caliph) than the Prophet...They accuse the Prophet of deliberately hiding verses about Ali (if the Prophet wanted he could have hidden the verse where God commands him to marry the divorced wife of his adopted son but did not do so), they dont believe in the companions or sahaba or the prophet's wives..They have misguided principles...All the deviated sects like Ahmediyas, Ismailis, Bohras, Qadhiyanis etc are off shoots of shiism...They dont follow the Quran and the Sunnah...That is why there is lots of misinterpretated lietrature abt Islam and abuse by people like you becoz no one studies the source..all go after the deviations to blaspheme!
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:37:06 PM
The basic tenets of Islamic faith other than belief in One God are belief in his angels, all his Prophets (from Adam to Mohammed - some 124000 between them), all his revealed books - 4 mentioned in Quran by name but God says that to every nation and tribe We have sent messengers and revelations.All the prophets believed in the same One God and deplored idol worship... Only 26 prophets mentioned by name in the Quran...many are there unnamed...Rama, Krishna anybody COULD HAVE BEEN the messengers of God, we cant say for sure as it is not confirmed in the Quran... Mohammed is the last and Adam the first...Whoever the Prophet all worshipped the ONE TRUE GOD and abhorred IDOL WORSHIP which is nothing but man made blasphemy against the CREATOR!Vedas too abhor idol worship and asks for beilef in ONE GOD who doesn't have parents, children, wives or images!
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:44:56 PM
and finally like I said earlier, Man is helpless and immaterial in fron of the creator...Man is totally dependent on every materialistic thing in this world for his survival whereas the Almighty doesn't need any of us...Even if we blaspheme or dont worship or believe NOT A SINGLE ASPECT OF GOD will change..IT we who need God and not vice versa...
patriotic muslim Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:46:22 PM
Imagine if God decides to finish the earth and annihilate every living creature or matter..then who will be there to say that some thing called MAN ever lived on the face of the earth or that 2 persons called Venu and Muslim were discussing in the blogs?
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:11:54 PM
I think patriotic Muslim has answered very well everything what venu has questioned.But i will add some more points here.The difference between shafai and hanafi and hanbali is very minute.Actually everyone mentioned above followed the sunnah of the Prophet. One example i would like to give is that in the prayer(namaaz) the shafai school of thought raise hands prior to going in the ruku(bowing)but hanafi school of thought don't do that. Initially Prophet used to do it and later on he left that thing completely but shafai followed it and other didnot followed it because prophet left it. and shafai thought he would not leave anything which Prophet has done. So there is no sin in doing it or not doing it.so these are the minor differences.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:02:17 PM
Regarding loyalty towards allah, it is fine if you do not worship any other god but allah. Now, are you not supposed to be loyal to your own country, your motherland, your society, your nation, your family?
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:05:24 PM
Dear P Muslim,Many prophets got revealation from god directly, like god speaking through their tounge. So don't say only moses got it directly. Also, nobody saw gabriel except muhammad, so your comment that many people saw him is not correct.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:05:50 PM
Shiism is a political religion.It founder is Abdullah ibne saba.A yemini jew who embraced islam when yemen came under islamic rule. and he on the face has embraced islam but not from his heart. so to put a divide in the Muslims (phoot daal ne ke liye) he unjustly started spreading hatred against the democratically elected caliphs and biasedly sided hazrat Ali. He had no love for Ali but to create nuisance in the Muslim world he did that.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:14:12 PM
Muslim, you wrote:"Man is helpless and immaterial in fron of the creator"I agree with that. But the same creator has given us brain and logic. Being a belieber you were not given a choice to ask even a single question about your religion or any other religion and by birth you are a muslim (in the sense that your up bringing was in muslim family). But we nonmuslims have a choice to look into all the religion and choose whatever appears to be a true religion. In this regard, we can ask questions about religion.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:23:17 PM
Nobody here is denying THE CREATOR but specially Venu and me are asking about validity of islam being the only true religion. Is it possible to achieve mercy and love of the god by doing good deeds and by being a betterhuman? or by only being a practising muslim? that is the question. I hope venu would agree with me.
Infidel Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:41:13 PM
In order to make sure that muhammad was the last prophet, we have to validate the authenticity of quran. If that is prooved to be word of allah, I have no problem in coming to the right path. The simple test is quran should not have a single error because god can not err.
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 1:55:50 AM
Prayer and Practices for the Muslim is from the HAdeeths of the prophet and Hadeeths Qudsi is reported to be the direct words of Allah to the prophet - with regard to the social and physical obligations of a muslim.That does not mean that Quran is less or more important. They both go together-Just like FOOD & WATER !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 1:57:18 AM
Venu !It was Charles Darwin ( a Human) who said that man came from the Apes ! So Why cant a Prophet tell its people that Allah - A creator - is Omnipresent. In fact a new study disproves darwind theorey in USA and a 6000 year history is traced from ADAM & EVE till the present. .
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:06:05 AM
Infi ! I dont want to call you infidel anymore ! QURAN has no errors-we belive-and its upto us to verify it by learning it deeply along with the Haddeths-Figh (Islamic Jurisprudence) You cannot become a surgeon by doing MBBS-you got to do MD ! So go deep into it and you will see what we dont see ! Insha Allah . To err is HUMAN and we all make mistakes ! SO you learn first hand and I am sure all your doubts will disappear !I being a Muslim- am still learning- So no one is perfect here !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:06:33 AM
Infi ! I dont want to call you infidel anymore ! QURAN has no errors-we belive-and its upto us to verify it by learning it deeply along with the Haddeths-Figh (Islamic Jurisprudence) You cannot become a surgeon by doing MBBS-you got to do MD !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:08:26 AM
Anindita & Sensless Critic !A debate is good ON whatever we can do something about. Yes Orphans-killings- poor- destitute-hunger-all this will linger on and so will Religion & GOD ALMIGHTY. Tahts the way we were born and thats the way we will all die ! BUT dont you agree -this debate is any day better than Shilpa-Judy - Noida-Cannibals-Politician-Corruption etc.Better than selling ice creams to the Eskimos-I am sure !
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:15:46 AM
Prayer and Practices for the Muslim is from the HAdeeths of the prophet and Hadeeths Qudsi is reported to be the direct words of Allah to the prophet - with regard to the social and physical obligations of a muslim.That does not mean that Quran is less or more important. They both go together-Just like FOOD & WATER !
Infidel Monday, January 22, 2007 2:16:01 AM
muneer, thanks for your comments on other blogs.Please confirm you mean "GOD IS OMNIPRESENT"
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:25:32 AM
Allah is OMNIPRESNT- Everywhere HE wishes ! BUT NOT where you wish HIM to be ! HE sees and knows ALL. IN fact HE lends you a helping hand whenever you do good ! Comments are getting posted OUT OF TURN !
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 7:06:53 PM
Dear Infidel, When you said "But we non-Muslims have a choice to look into all the religions and choose whatever appears to be a true religion", there is a catch there. If anyone chooses Islam, then, like Abhimanyu, they would be trapped in the Chakravyuha called Islam! You know they dislike apostates. So in the sane order of things, Islam should convert to Hinduism for freedom of religions.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 7:11:23 PM
Dear Muneerka, Omnipresent means 'present everywhere at the same time', not 'present everywhere He wishes'. Is Allah Omnipresent?
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 7:17:55 PM
Dear Patriotic Muslim, You say, "All the messengers spoke through Arch Angel Gabriel. Only one messenger has spoken directly to God i.e Prophet Moses (pbuh)". Do you mean Mohammad never spoke to Allah? Please clarify.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:19:37 PM
Dear Muneerka, When you say the Quran and the Hadeedths are like food and water, you are saying that Quran without the Hadeedths are incomplete and vice versa but both of them together are complete. Does this mean that God partnered with Mohammad in authoring his bestseller instruction manual to mankind? Allah abhors partnership.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:23:38 PM
Dear Muneerka, Your claim that "QURAN has no errors" is not an unique claim. All believers believe so about their scriptures. So what’s new?
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:43:05 PM
Dear Muneerka, Your saying, "So go deep into it [Quran] and you will see what we don't see!” Let me tell you one thing I see which you apparently don't yet see. According to me "La ilaha illallah" which you would see as "there is no god but Allah" I see, going deeper, as "there is nothing but Allah". I make bold to say that the erroneous interpretation of the words "La ilaha illallah" by Mohammad and its due acceptance by Muslims is the most grievous hurt caused to the cause of spiritualism in world history. I believe Islam will in due course self-destruct merely for the misinterpretation of this single Tahil. But not to worry, there are Sufis who understand it as, “There is nothing to worship except Allah.” This, I believe, is nearer the truth.
K.Venugopal Monday, January 22, 2007 8:52:07 PM
Dear Muneerka, Do you believe that man has only a 6000 year history from ADAM & EVE till the present? What does the Quran say? If I understand correctly, Darwin never said that man came from monkeys. He talked of an intermediary species that has vanished. This is called the missing link. Maybe the whole jigsaw puzzle will fall in place if and when this missing link is found and we may not ridicule Darwin after all.

Loyalty to Allah

Sunday, January 21, 2007
Loyalty to Allah
Dear Ruzan Shah,
When you say there is no country which totally follows Islamic laws, the question arises, why not, particularly when there are many 100% Muslim countries? Is the royal family in Saudi Arabia illegitimate in the eyes of Islam? If so, why are the Muslims permitting them to control the holy shrine of Mecca? Shouldn’t Muslims focus their terrorism on the Saudi Royal family, instead of carrying out such acts in India where Muslims enjoy all the rights of the majority and some more?

You keep talking about loyalty vis-a-visa Allah without realising loyalty is a concept that makes sense when there is more than one of the same type to which you can be loyal. For instance we would want Indians to be loyal to India because there is always the possibility that at least some of them could be loyal to Pakistan. In the case of Allah, to whom else can you be loyal when according to Islam there is no one else like Allah?
5:05:45 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Comments
ignoramus Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:54:47 PM
who is allah?
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:05:45 PM
Further, Ruzan, please do not say Islam believes in universal brotherhood. Islam only believes in the brotherhood of the believers, that is, believers in Islam. That is why they allow only Muslims to Mecca.You have quoted well from the Bible, but unfortunately Islam does not allow you to seek the truth, it only expects you to follow the truth it claims to have set out in the Quran.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:27:56 PM
Venu, the other thing towards which a person can be loyal is towards his vims and fancies.So Islam wants its followers to be loyal to Allah only and not to some of his wishes which are against the rules and regulations of Islam.
Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 5:31:26 PM
There are lot of terrorist attacks which took place in Saudi Arabia. you may not be aware of it because media hype is not given to those attacks as it is given to the attacks in UK and USA. There is lot of Anger against the saudi govt.But it is not manifested in open.
K.Venugopal Sunday, January 21, 2007 6:32:52 PM
Dear Learner, Loyalty is a word that cannot be used for things like whims and fancies. Maybe by using the English word 'loyal' we are not expressing the exact relationship Allah expects from Man. Maybe in Arabic they have the more appropriate word. Do locate the word and write on it. Are you sympathetic to the terrorists who are against the Saudi government?

Learner Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:32:17 PM
I am not sympathetic to the terrorist who are against the saudi government.I have just answered your querry that there are terrorist attacks which happened in saudi arabia.and the resentment against the govt is rising by the day.

Of gods and views, waves and oceans

Thursday, January 18, 2007
Of gods and views, waves and oceans.
Islam’s and Hinduism’s view on God might be understood using the analogy of the ocean and the waves. In a moment of separation:

1. One wave says there is only one ocean and the wave is eternally separate from it (Islam).
2. Another says there is only the ocean and the wave’s destiny is to merge in it (Advaita).
3. Yet another says there is no ocean, only waves. (the Atheists).
4. And still another says there may be both the waves and the ocean, but so what? (the

Agnostics).
5. And then there is the wave which says there are many oceans (popular Hinduism).

The permutations and combination as to the relationship between the waves and the ocean are numberable. According to Hinduism, all are right, depending on their perspective. Islam on the other hand would say that only the first view is correct. I wouldn’t say Islam’s view is wrong, but I might not be wrong in saying that Islam is not open to viewing on wider perspectives. This has had its implications, leading to the exclusive religion that Islam has come to be while Hinduism has become an inclusive culture.

I conceed that the above analogy may be too simplistic or even errorenous. But as far as trying to understand the subject goes, it might be valid.

11:07:14 AM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (2) Uncategorized
Comments
MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 12:00:56 AM
Your Simplistic analogy is OK for a different time. When man did not have any previous people / community / faiths/religion to compare.Today it is a different story and ISLAM is like pure drinking water-NOT the saline sea Water-Or the polluted water of the Ganges ! And we have no more chance to purify the Ganga -or our souls !Its not doomsday_ BUT we are 5 minutes away from disaster !
Roger Friday, January 19, 2007 7:16:53 PM
yes Muneer, you and your thoughts are 5 minutes away from catstrophe. You are a big-mouthed loud-hailer of yourself and you talk about ISLAM as pure drinking water. You forget that it needs filteration plant to remove the germs of the waterborne diseases that have eaten up IRAQ, Middle East,Afghanistan,Pakistan,Chechaneya, Indonesia,Kosovo, Serbia and now spreading fast in India.

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 8:41:38 PM
Roger !Filteration with NUKES ? Sure-its the Doomsday clock being set at 5 minutes to midnight- Dont YOU watch CNN BBC FOX NEWS !Oh you may be busy filtering your own body and ridding it of germs ?? AIDS ??Best of Luck !

Roger Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:30:25 AM
Muneer! O, Muneer!! You are so obssessed with self-righteouness of your thouhts and religion that you are blinded to read the writing on the wall in the broad daylight with the sun being at 12 O' clock. You have dropped the shutters of your mind, eyes and the ears. You can not see, cannot read and cannot rationally think. You hanged SADDAM and blame BUSH. You kill hundreds in IRAQ and Kashmir and blame USA and INDIA. You , all of you, are just one minute away from disaster. wake up and open your eyes, it is a different dawn with new message.

MUNEERUDEEN Friday, January 19, 2007 8:41:38 PM
Roger !Filteration with NUKES ? Sure-its the Doomsday clock being set at 5 minutes to midnight- Dont YOU watch CNN BBC FOX NEWS !Oh you may be busy filtering your own body and ridding it of germs ?? AIDS ??Best of Luck !
Roger Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:30:25 AM
Muneer! O, Muneer!! You are so obssessed with self-righteouness of your thouhts and religion that you are blinded to read the writing on the wall in the broad daylight with the sun being at 12 O' clock. You have dropped the shutters of your mind, eyes and the ears. You can not see, cannot read and cannot rationally think. You hanged SADDAM and blame BUSH. You kill hundreds in IRAQ and Kashmir and blame USA and INDIA. You , all of you, are just one minute away from disaster. wake up and open your eyes, it is a different dawn with new message.
KMuneerudeen Monday, January 22, 2007 2:29:14 AM
ROGER !DEAF-DUMB & Mute- are the DISBELEIVERS ! OK so you belive in George Bush-Tony Blair & look what they did to IRAQ -Even their own people are against it ! Wait till you see what they have planned for IRAN.Just count your blessings that you are NOT in their NUKE range !Atlease WE have the One minute -BUT you dont !

Muslim scholarship hell-bent on proving that Hinduism is a monotheistic religion

Monday, January 15, 2007
Muslim scholarship hell-bent on proving that Hinduism is a Monotheistic religion.


This is a comment on Ajmal Rashid’s blog ISLAM AND HINDUISM: CONFLICT OR COINCIDE posted on Monday, January 15, 2007 at 3:07:51 PM. It is actually an article by Dr. Zakir Naik, which Ajmal Rashid has not acknowledged. This article was posted before and I’ve commented on it then. I am copying my comments then, with Dr. Naik’s thesis in blue.

I


Dr. Zakir Naik, starts by considering Hinduism as a single religion, whereas Hinduism is actually a confluence of innumerable religious expressions.Also, he calls Hinduism an Aryan religion. The religious and spiritual culture that is denoted by the word Hinduism, being expressions of the universal urge of man to delve within to his divine potential, is not restricted to any so-called race. It’s traditional name, Sanatana Dharma (the Eternal Harmony) is very indicative of the universality of Hinduism.These 33 crores Gods do not cause a Hindu disharmony while even a suggestion of a single other God besides Allah causes the Muslim great anguish. Why? Because the Hindu knows that these 33 crores Gods are only the expressions of the ultimate truth, which truth is not separate from our own potential. The Muslim on the other hand, is forbidden to express God except as he believes Allah has instructed him in the Quran. A God separate from him has to be submitted to, no questions asked. The Hindu is free to be creative and expressive, for he knows that in his fullest potential, he himself is that God. Tat Tvam Asi.
No learned Hindu would say that we SHOULD believe and worship only one God for the simple reason that he does not see the worshiping of many Gods out of sync with man’s pursuit of spirituality, which is the purpose of religion.
II

Dr. Naik’s differentiation between Islam and Hinduism as being just the ‘s’ is legitimate and honest. In Hindu parlance, Islam is a Dwaitic (dualistic) religion whereas Hinduism goes deeper to the Advaitic (non-dualistic) experience. When we say Islam is a Dwaitic religion, it is not to belittle Islam thereby. A vast majority of Hindus also celebrate dualism. And yet, all Hindus know that this is not the ultimate. The ultimate is merging in God. Islam does not go this deep (with the exception of the Sufis). It merely waits for God to judge everyone and dole out eternal punishments or rewards. The Hindus who are Dwaitic of course do not believe in a line up and judgement scenario. Why? Thanks to the sublime influence of Advaita among the masses of even Dwaitic Hindus, what with the teachings of Karma and rebirths.I like Dr. Naik’s saying that if we resolve the apostrophe ‘s’ problem, Hindus and Muslims can unite. However, I wish to tell him that Hindus and Muslims are disunited only because Islam insists that it is the only true religion and not because there is a difference of opinion on this or that. Hinduism celebrates differences of opinion, for they see it all as man’s various expressions. So let the Muslim believe that his religion is a great religion, that his scripture is God’s own words and that Muslims are the most blessed folks in the world. No harm in all that. We have a lot of Hindus who believe the same thing about their religions too. But Muslims must accept that other religions are also legitimate. Then and only then can there be a joint celebration of each others religion and thus real unity.

Hinduism has proved this historically. Take Vaishnavism and Shaivism. In the Islamic milieu, there would have been bloodbaths between the followers of Vishnu and Shiva. But look how they have amalgamated into one religious culture, so much so that outsiders would be surprised to know that they are actually two different religions with two different and distinct Gods, each God with his own set-up! And more surprising would be Shaktism, whose followers believe that God is actually a Goddess! And their followers do not even follow the Vedas. They follow the Tantric scriptures. So much difference and yet so much unity. That’s Hinduism. Unity in diversity.
III

The Holy Qur’an says, "Come to common terms as between us and you", which is the first term? -That we worship none but Allah, so lets come to common terms by analyzing the scripture of the Hindus and the Muslim.
Dr. Zakir Naik quotes the the Holy Qur’an to say “Come to common terms as between us and you”.How great. But the Islamic milieu has transformed it to mean, “Let there be a common ground by all means and let that common ground be Islam.”I. Bhagwad Geeta 7:20. The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagwad Geeta. Bhagwad Geeta mentions in Chapter 7, Verse 20, "Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires worship demigods" that is "Those who are materialistic, they worship demigods" i.e. besides the true God.
I wish to say that when the Bhagwad Geeta refers to demigods they only mean the reference point of a person who has not fully awoken to the truth of who he is. This is in consonance with the ultimate hallmark of Hinduism – that truth is one but the wise express it variously. A person who has not fully awoken to the spiritual truth is not a lesser person, just as a child is not a lesser person than a grown-up. So a materialist is he who has not fully awoken to his destiny and he will therefore worship God at his level. This is what is called ‘various expressions’. The Gita does not call a child stupid. But when the child does not grow-up, then the Gita says such a person is Baleshu – a childish person.
IV
II. Upanishad are also one of the sacred scriptures of the Hindus. In Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 6, Section 2, Verse 1 it is mentioned "He is one only without a second". Similar to what is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 1, "Say he is Allah one and only".
May I ask who is one without a second? Not a God who can be distinguished as being a Creator separate from his creation. In separation, there is a second. Only when everything is God (or when there is nothing, not even God – the shoonya concept of the Buddhists), is there one without a second.I wish to say that when the Quran enjoins to say that he is Allah one and only, it has reached only the penultimate Dwaitic situation of Hindu culture. The ultimate is the Advaitic situation, which the Sufis understand.
The Hindu believes everything is pervaded by God. So the Hindu takes a stone and chisels it to be the centre of divinity in his life and the life of the community. It is just like electricity being everywhere but requiring a bulb to bring the light to our sensory level.

V
III. In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 6, Verse 9 it is mentioned "Of him there is neither parents nor lord". "Of him there is no master in the world, no ruler, nor is there any mark of him. He is the cause, the lord of the lords of the sense organs; of him there is neither progenitor nor lord". Similar message is given in Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 3, "He begets not, nor is he begotten".
Absolutely. The Vedas here are talking of the undifferentiated state of Brahman, not the state of creator-created separation, where Ishwar or Allah or God and His creation come in.The Quran in similar verses is also talking of Allah in the Brahman state. The moment Allah creates, then he is no longer in the Brahman-state. Then he is in the Ishwar state (in Hindu parlance). This differentiation of Allah into two states, His state before creation and His state after creation is not clear in Arabic because the same word Allah is used in both before-creation state and after-creation state. Sanskrit however has used two different words for the before and after stages and thus the clarity on this in Hindu commentaries. (Brahman is not to be confused with Brahma the creator in mythical parlance.) Brahman is not the creator. Brahman is the substratum on which the drama of creation manifests and subsides in aeons of time.
VI
IV. "His form is not to be seen; no one sees him with the eye. Those who through heart and mind know him as abiding in the heart become immortal". Similar message is given in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Anam, Chapter 6, Verse 103, "No vision can grasp him. But his grasp is over all vision: he is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things".
The Vedic verse quoted above appears reflected picturesquely in the battlefield of Kurukshetra when Krishna displays his Vishva-roop to Arjuna.In both the above verses it will be noted that the speaker is not Brahman of the Vedas or Allah of the Quran. It is a Rishi who has reached the ultimate stage who is describing the state in the Vedas. Is it Mohammad who is saying the words quoted in the Quran? Or is it Allah telling Mohammad to proclaim thus? Please clarify.

V. In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 19 it is mentioned "There is no likeness of him whose name is great glory". Similar message is given in the Holy Qur’an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 4, "And there is none like unto him". Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11 and also in Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11, "There is nothing whatever like unto him".

The curious thing about the two verses that were received in two different milieus is that in the case of the Veda the “He” still remains unknown and mysterious whereas in the Quran the “He” has a name – Allah. Proving once again that the Vedas are talking of the undifferentiated Brahman whereas the Quran is talking of the differentiated God, where the totality is differentiated between the creator and his creation.
We must bow humbly to all the scriptural verses quoted. How potent in force the verses are, both of the Vedas and the Quran. They are indeed mystical poetry. Very Hindu in fact. Hindu mystics talk like this.
VII
VI. It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 32, Verse "There is no image of Him." It further says as "He is unborn, He deserves our worship" "There is no image of him whose glory verily is great. He sustains within himself all luminous objects like the sun etc. may he not harm me, this is my prayer. As he is unborn, he deserves our worship".
This again is at the Brahman stage, a purely undifferentiated stage, called for only of the highest mystics. For us ordinary folks, the Vedas prescribe idol-worship. Just as Allah has prescribed for Muslims the form of the Kaa’ba. The Muslims know that they are really not offering their worship to Ka’aba but it is only an aid to help them to focus on the prayer to Allah. Likewise the Hindus too know that the idols are an aid to worship Ishwar and then go beyond idols and Ishwar and reach the stage of Brahman – knower of Brahman becomes Brahman.

VIII

VII. It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 40, Verse 9 "They enter darkness, those who worship natural things" For e.g. air, water, fire etc. It further continues and says, "They sink deeper in darkness those who worship Sambhuti i.e. created things", For example table, chair, idol etc. "Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti’s worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti are intent"The above quotations taken by Dr. Naik are exhortations by the Vedas that we should not restrict our advancement in spirituality to level of objects. It has got nothing to do with BELIEF in One God. What is behind a tree, for instance? It is the bij mantra for that tree (akin to the physical seed). It is said that we may be born in a temple but we should not die in a temple. This only means that we have to go beyond everything, including even the Vedas, till we merge in the Brahman. (And Hinduism gives us as many lifetimes as we need for that.) This is the ultimate. What’s beyond the ultimate? (Well, this question may sound meaningless. But it is worthwhile to remember that there are Rishis in India even of late, like Aurobindo Maharshi, who thought at levels that are beyond the ultimate. Islam, as understood by the best of Muslims, stops at Allah, the sound vibration. It is yet to take its teachings to the level of silence. (But how is this possible, Mohammad has come and gone. No further editions of knowledge are possible.) The Vedas however do not have such restrictive teachings. That is what the above verses mean. The full implication of the above verses can only be explained by a Guru.I feel Dr. Naik is stopping at the brink of studying the Vedas. (But he can’t do it by himself, he needs a Guru. You can’t study the Vedas merely by making annotations as your read along!)
IX
Dear Ajmal Rashid, you will notice in all of Dr. Naik's quotation of the Vedas, nowhere does the God of the Vedas proclaim that He is the only true God and He has appointed so and so as his final authentic messenger. Actually, the “speaker” of the Vedas is not God himself separate from his audience but the resonance of the eternal truths as received by the self-realized Rishi of yore. This is a marked difference between the passages you have quoted from the Quran. The God of the Quran enjoins loyalty and obeisance. Submission of his creatures to him (as if he failed programming that quality in men when he created them). In the Vedas, it is the expression of the Rishi in his higher consciousness of spirituality.

In the light of the above verses, what needs to be pondered over is why the Vedas did not spawn a culture of exclusivity whereas Islam did? What is the reason for this difference in consequence? I humbly suggest that this is because Islam separated the Creator and the created whereas Hinduism says that the Creator and his creation are one.
9:19:46 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (1) Uncategorized
Comments
Bhupender Monday, January 15, 2007 9:10:48 PM
why is every alternate blog on religion. Religion has been the major cause of all conflicts in History and yet we keep trying to prove that one religion is better than the other.