Of Hindu nudist beach and Mohammad's hair

Friday, February 9, 2007
Of Hindu nudist beach and Mohammad's hair.
Dear Muneerka, This blog is in comment to your blog “Q & Replies 3 to Jumbo Jumbo -Islam Bashers”

The genesis of hatred in the world of religion is the Semetic concept of “my religion the only true religion” and Islam is one of the fountainheads of such a concept with its believe that Quran is the last word of God.

You say the prophet of Islam does not need my defense, but irony is every time you utter his name you say (PBUH or SAW). Why so much intercession on his behalf?

When you say Allah even took Jesus from his tormentors, you are contradicting the Quranic view that Jesus did not die on the cross. So when did Allah take him to heaven?

You say Mohammad was known even among his enemies as an honest, trustworthy man. It appears he was for a long time under the control of his first wife who was elder to him. Soon after his wife died, he married a series of women and at least one pre-puberty girl as if to mark independence from the probably hen-pecked life he was leading. This proves that he was not honest even to his wife’s memory. Probably he did not leave any enemies alive to testify anything negative about him. I can make this much out based on the intolerance of Muslims even today to criticism.

The “truth” that Mohammad preached was that Islam is the only true religion. Why should we, who know better, accept this to be a truth at all?

Tell me, where did Vedas predict an honest Prophet among the Arabs? The way you put it is appears that honestly among Prophets was a rarity!

Who says we don’t have the power of ownership of India? India belongs to all children of Bharath Mata.

Honest, original and independent pursuit of truth without pre- conceived notions means meditation and reflection upon the truths that come to us as our heritage and internalizing it only if it is consistent with our experience of its veracity and not simply parroting them ad-infinitum, like, “There is only one god and Mohammad is his last messenger”.

Mohammad meditated in the Herat caves and other places and rose to a higher consciousness, from which level he produced many verses in the Quran. But it appears that he suffered from lapses (probably due to his not having a proper Guru) and this explains many of the ‘satanic’ verses in the Quran, some, but not all, of which were abrogated by later compilers of the Quran. This is a historical fact sought to be denied by the Muslims.

Hinduism believes in freedom and is not constrained by time as it believes that a practitioner has many life times to make good his potential, whereas Islam has only one lifetime for its adherents and hence the Muslim sense of frenzy vis-à-vis religion.

Rituals are not prayers, you say. Funny, but what are the happenings in Mecca during Hajj all about? Are they not rituals? Why does Islam have rituals? Are you saying Islamic rituals are valid while Hindu rituals are not?

In Ashwamedha Yagna, the horse is not killed but only halted in its free roaming, thereby challenging the King who sent the horse to roam free. In Mecca on a holy day millions of goats, cows and camels are killed in the name of Allah. Any comparison?

The basic premise of Islam is wrong. If there is a creator who cared for his creation, he would have sent an instruction manual with the so-called first prophet Adam. Muslims say God did send such a manual but with the influx of time that manual became irrelevant and others had to be sent and finally the Quran. Why finality when time did not stand still in the middle-ages?

Man and God are not separate, and if you say there cannot be higher truths and lower truths, do you mean that all the books Allah sent before the Quran were lies? If they indeed were the highest truth, why was it necessary to send the same truth again via the Quran?

Indeed a lie repeated over and over again does not become the truth nor does the truth repeated over and over again make the parrot anything more than a parrot. You have to invoke the higher consciousness in you to be a pursuer of truth.

You ask who eats the food prepared for the Gods. I ask who listens to prayers meant for Allah? If Allah has ears, why can’t the gods have mouths?

About keeping paws off married or unmarried women, you cover them in burka. (It did not, though, stop Mohammad from exercising his libido.)

For you the highest order is simply the words of Mohammad. We have not stopped ourselves from getting the benefit of continued expressions of the highest order. We were not forced to stop accepting expressions in the 7th century.

I agree Mohammad did not meditate at a stretch to get the complete truth. That is not necessary. What is required is that there is continuity. He meditated in bits and pieces and this might explain the lapses he went through, so much so that you yourself said that the Quran has verses which supercedes its earlier verses. Others of different climes meditated without lapses, like Buddha and Jesus, and have come out with truly spiritual messages.

Of course Muslims can’t aspire to be one with the creator – they have been created (brainwashed) to being slaves. It is the discovery of oil that has brought wealth to the Arabs after long centuries of poverty. Many got the taste of wealth from milking the pilgrims to Mecca from other parts of the world or smuggling gold from Dubai to Bombay. About selling land to get visa to go to Arab lands, the pioneers were the Muslims of Kerala who were at that time very poor and who used to go illegally to Dubai through launches without passport.

It is the Hindu ethos that has seen the flowering of so many communities who were persecuted in the land of Islam – the Jews, Parsis, Bahais. They are all thriving in India. In Arabic land, only Muslims communities are permitted to thrive and now they have narrowed their perspective further to allow only Sunnis to thrive. What a state of affairs..

In spite of having only the Quran, which is the same since it originated, the Sunnis and Shias are at loggerheads with each other and under many flags. Hindus, with innumerable scriptures and beliefs, are united and under one flag – the Indian flag. Jai Hind.

Why do Muslims have to kiss a stone in Mecca though they claim not to be idol worshippers? Why do they need to preserve Mohammad’s hair in a mosque in Kashmir?

About sources of knowledge, Vedas beats the Quran because Vedas were written much before the Quran. In fact an earlier scripture than Vedas has not been discovered.

Muneerka, talking about the Quran being the new Windows Vista actually means Vista of the 7th century. Bill Gates would go beyond Vista. But who is to go beyond Quran? It is forbidden.

You say, “Faith is a personal matter.” This is not true of Islam. Islam is very much a communal and political matter. Islam cannot be practiced except as a community and with political power to implement its Shariat.

Islam very much propagates itself. It has to, otherwise how would anyone know that it is the only true religion?

What do you mean by “learn the correct Islam”? Correct Islam depends on whether you are Sunni or Shia.

Muslims do not fear conversion because they have the protection of the state. In fact Islam is a state powered religion. It cannot be practiced fully unless it has a state to implement its Shariat – which is a political constitution of a so-called religion.

You say Islam does not support the theory of evolution. But it has its own theory of evolution which says that Quran is the updated and final version of scriptures, that is to say, it has evolved to completeness.

Why, did not Swami Dayanand Sarawati consider the Quran and publish his views? But when the Quran is quoted, you object, saying Quran has to be read in totality. Does that mean not a single verse of the Quran stands by itself?

Hindus have the freedom to go wherever they want, to the, as you say, nudist beach or a temple with idols. Muslims have no choice; they have to turn to the cube idol for prayers wherever they are, because God has left a piece of his magic black stone there.
6:23:02 PM
Posted By Venu Gopal Comments (0) Uncategorized

Infidel Friday, February 9, 2007 6:53:25 PM
Venu & JJ,Now we all know that this pervert Muneer is here to deceive us and when he run out of logical arguments, he will vomit his filth on us.I had make him admit that he cannot answer me because as he answers either his prophet or his own Dr Naik is wrong. Which eventually means his HOLY QURAN is dead wrong, this shameless creature is not accepting the truth and keeping on abusing me.This will happen to you guys also, whenever you will put something irrefutable to him, he will start abusing, threatening and cursing and finally will run after your families in filthiest way. That is the true nature of this DO MUNDI KA SAAP.Do you still want to continue with such a big hypocrite, liar and coward who has been exposed right in front of you? My suggestion is to be aware of him and don't waste your time with such a pervert cowardise filth, because even if you prove something on his face, he will deny it and will go on reciting ALLAH O AKBAR
hindu Friday, February 9, 2007 6:55:39 PM
excellent
Infidel Friday, February 9, 2007 7:02:06 PM
Venu,Excellent one.Please keep it up

K.Venugopal Friday, February 9, 2007 9:05:34 PM
Dear Infidel, You are right, Muneerka is evading your queries and countering it with non-relevant ones – which is surprising because you are questioning the very basis that Quran is the word of Allah. I would have thought he would move heaven and earth to counter you directly on the points you have raised, considering that Muslims are rather dogmatic about the Quran. Learner and Human carried on the debate in a civilized way. In the beginning Muneerka too chipped in with encouragements. But somewhere along the line, he went crazy, calling you names and worse. Maybe when he saw that the debate was going horribly wrong from his point of view, he just began to hate the kafirs.Dear Infidel, you’ve had a fantastic run. You are very much like the boy in the story who blurted out that the king is naked. Let’s hope someone will again take up the debate with you so that light is shed on the more pertinent aspects of the last word of Allah.

Infidel Friday, February 9, 2007 10:04:45 PM
pervert filthy mouthed muneer,Now I understood why you are after my family. Because your own family ditched you, your all 4 wives run away with hindus, your all 5 sisters married christians and your 6 daughters are under MUTTA (temporary/ one night marriages, permissible by allah, the most merciful) with Jews, which reminds you that your mother was hindu and hence you are half hindu and half muslim but actually you are fully brainwashed. You are allowed to say whatever filth you can vomit to a kafir by allah.PS: EAT YOUR SH!T BABY
muneerudeen Friday, February 9, 2007 10:21:29 PM
Allah U Akbar ! You infidels are acting just as those before you did.You cannot accept someone giving you answers to you ME-GOD-IDOL WORSHIP.Others may not reply to people like you BUT dont worry-I will be there to fill you guys in- Clean stuff -if you really want to learn _OR BULLSHI if you want to crap !
muneerudeen Friday, February 9, 2007 10:27:59 PM
As I have said I never brought family till Infidel2 compared his grandma to "the Prophet of Islam and the other blog reg his animosity towards muslims.He seems to know about islam from all the wrong sources OR half baked sources.So I suggested the authentic links-which he does not even want to try-for fear of being converted !
muneerudeen Friday, February 9, 2007 10:31:21 PM
True Venu !It was YOU who exposed your true colors as the RSS Bomber"On gods Oceans and now backtrack because you never expected me to read that. As for someone using INFIDEL 2 and Infidel and posting in that name-I beleived it to be Infi-from the commnents. So if I have been wrong about that-I accept-BUT that does not change a thing !
muneerudeen Friday, February 9, 2007 10:33:33 PM
Venu and your Swami Dayanadji's discourses . I got only 2 out of 160. Are you afraid of the answers to that ? As for your question if Quranic Verses dont stand seperately-Like I told you-It has to be in context."Eg:"Thabbath Yada Abi Lahab" s.111-1.Yusuf Ali translates it"Perish the hands of the father of flame-Perish !
muneerudeen Friday, February 9, 2007 10:35:25 PM
Now that does not make sense does it. But it was revealed in answer to the Attack on the Prophet by none other than his Qureishi Uncle Abu Lahab - when he wanted to kill his own nephew-for preaching against idolatory-which his fathers and forefathers practiced in Arabia
muneerudeen Friday, February 9, 2007 10:38:12 PM
Similarly there are stops for prostration while reading the Qur'an.Most of them were revealed in the presence of apostates and enemies who came with ill intention to harm the prophet.When those verses were revealed-even these apostates bowed down in Sajda before Allah-unbenownkst to them. Thats the power of the revelations !
Gandphat Rai Friday, February 9, 2007 10:39:03 PM
As suggested before, you please go out and practice some of the good things in your respective religions, help some people, do some charitable acts, instead of just discussing who is right and wrong. Religion is for practicing and not for hot air discussion. My gaaaand is phat gaya reading all this nonsense.
muneerudeen Friday, February 9, 2007 10:51:53 PM
Read my cut paste Job-Why orientalists Absh Islam- and find the TRUTH there. It is exactly what you guys are doing-exactly to the TEE ! you malign-the prophet-make the source of the Qur'an unworthy and then you can spread all yourcanard of lies against the QUr'an and muslims. BUT you wont get too far ! Before lon you will repent and become a muslim and beg for mercy from Allah !Like the infidels before you did ! You will realise that your characterisation of Al-Ilah is correct only in ISLAM
jj Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:08:17 AM
i would rather go to hell than to convert to a muslim.
muneerudeen Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:35:59 AM
Good descision JJ !
muneerudeen Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:45:56 AM
JJ .YES ,Thats the spirt Of conviction ! Keep it up ! If you need any help do let me know . I mean to expand your mental horizion beyond Hell & Conversion to Islam Dont get stuck with CLOTS and Al Bahar on this earth !PS: Do you know where HELL is ?? do you have a pas port or Visa ??
muneerudeen Saturday, February 10, 2007 1:50:42 AM
Rai-You call yourself Ga a nd phat and what can you expect from yourself .and please change your ID name .If this is nonsense DONT READ SKIP IT BUDDY What I do is between me and MY Allah and he gives me the opportunity to do what I do.!So go practice some charity and Gyaanprapth yourself
Gandphat Rai Saturday, February 10, 2007 2:20:18 AM
Muneeruddin, nonsense is the useless arguments with infidel and venugopal etc, everyone trying to show other wrong. It is enough if you practice your beliefs and be happy, same also for infidel etc. Looks like you are more interested in pulling others down instead of following the commandments of your respective prophets. I am not intersted in gyanprapth, only in silai for my gaaand phat.
RADHAKRISHNAN.C Saturday, February 10, 2007 6:53:56 AM
Excellent blog Venu,keep up the good work .
K.Venugopal Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:08:27 AM
Dear Munerka, Your quotation of the verse about Abu Lahab in the Quran clarifies that Abu Lahab was an enemy of Mohammad. Mohammad in return cursed Abu Lahab. A natural response. Please tell me what the verse teaches you. No Quran is required to teach any human to behave naturally. What scriptures attempt to do is to take man to higher heights from his current natural state. Therefore, in preaching the Quran, what lessons have the commentators drawn from this verse in the Quran? This is the key question and key point. Or is the verse just a statement of an event that took place? I am sure everything can be put in perspective by one who has got into the spirit of the Quran. The same is with all scriptures. Therefore do not claim that Islam is the only true religion and Quran is the last word of God.
K.Venugopal Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:13:32 AM
Dear Muneerka, You have again decried idol worship without explaining what a piece of meteorite is doing in your great cubic idol in Mecca or Mohammad's hair in a mosque in Kashmir.
Roger Saturday, February 10, 2007 7:41:03 PM
Venugopal, is knowledge and learning an end in itself? Or is it only the means to an end? A learned man who does not apply his knowledge for the greater good, is he any better than the rest, who either don't know or dont care? Is knowledge of doctrine greater than practice of the teachings?
Infidel Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:30:53 PM
Dear Venu, You rightly said that sura 111 (lahab) is nothing but a curse from muhammad. HOw it shows divinity? Only blind followers will see divinity in it. It never said nor meant that Lahab will die as unbeliever, simply a curse from muhammad to his enemy Lahab. Since muhammad was powerless in mecca at that time.You can find the detailed analysis of these sura 111 in part 6 of the debate,regards
RADHAKRISHNAN.C Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:26:30 PM
Dear Mr.Venu you do your home work thoroughly and then come to blog.The others dont seem to do their home work,and are at the recieving end.Any way great blog.Keep it up
muneerudeen Saturday, February 10, 2007 11:50:37 PM
Venuji has all the time in the world at NIGHT- sitting in his employers office in FORT Mumbai and typing away on the net. WE HAVE other things to do. Yet I am not going to let a bunch of Hindu Fanatics-abuse ALL MUSLIMS !
muneerudeen Sunday, February 11, 2007 1:00:11 AM
Venu & Infi & HinduPlease understand that when I dont know-I say I dont know-I dont couch it in Semantics like Venu OR stick like a Clot like Infi ! I will learn about it and reply later.If you dont have the patience then dont ask the questions. You question my faith and you get the answer that I Know !
Infidel Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:14:12 PM
It looks you are learning some decency. Learn it from Human & learner.You really don't know much about islam and need to know alot more. Put your energy in positive direction and sincerely learn islam if you really want to.Since you admitted that you are learning ABC of islam, you are not at all in a position to answer my questions. Better while learning islam, try to find out the answers of those questions.By abusing, cursing, impersonating, you are wasting your time and energy. that is not going to help you or us.So far you couldn't answer a single question from me, so please read quran and hadith more and more, you will find the truth.By evading the questions you are basically deceiving yourself. You know that by answering them, you will loose your faith in islam, so you are avoiding them.
Infidel Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:26:30 PM
That is known as "DENIAL FROM TRUTH".Now please dont start your abusing here.No human being is a CLOT in any stage of embryo, but you can insult yourself and your islam by writing more and more about it. Each time you write rub*ish, you show that you are ignorant and your quran is fake.Please read and understand what I write and don't start impostering and impersonating again.It is a sincere advice from a friend. It is upto you to accept it or show your islamic widom by abusing again.
muneerudeen Sunday, February 11, 2007 11:48:31 PM
Denial From Truth ? Impostering ?sincere advice ? LOOK who's talking.I however have to thank Infi since I have learnt a lot by reading the Biography of the prophet in the past days. I understand the attitude of infidels and apostates and aethists of the 21st century are far than the attitude of the 7th century infidels !

K.Venugopal Monday, February 12, 2007 8:47:28 PM
Dear Roger, It has to be understood that when we talk about something, we are talking only from the level of our present knowledge. We know that there are innumerable people who have far greater knowledge than us, in each and every subject we may bring up. Then again there is the wealth of knowledge lying in the many books of mankind that are our greatest heritage. In these books, the best of men say, are layers and layers of knowledge even in the same set of words. And last but not least, great masters have spoken of Gnostics and beyond, people who have minds or personalities of a different dimension. Therefore when we talk of knowledge and learning, there is no end to it. For us knowledge may be a means to some end. But the highest of knowledge may be an end in itself, where the knower finds no need to do anything. In a situation which we might think calls for emergency action, a realized soul might see a significance which we with lesser knowledge might not recognize and chose not to do anything. Ever wonder why God does not intervene in the affairs of men now-a-days? Maybe He knows something we don't!

K.Venugopal Monday, February 12, 2007 8:49:57 PM
Dear Radhakrishnanji, Thanks for your encouragement.

K.Venugopal Monday, February 12, 2007 8:52:27 PM
Dear Muneerka, I think you are being unfair. When have I abused Muslims? Aren't we having a decent conversation on Islam and Hinduism? - never mind the colourful language that seems to creep in now and then. But that's the nature of this blog format, where anyone can impersonate anyone. I feel it in my gut that Muneerka is a decent person and therefore I discount all gibberish that is written in his name. Consider all this preliminary. One day we shall sit on the banks of Chaliyar by your Dad's social service unit and seek to see the face of God. Inshallah!

K.Venugopal Monday, February 12, 2007 8:58:45 PM
Dear Infidel, There is just one word to describe you - formidable. Your blog comments are, I have no doubt, the most eagerly awaited ones on NDTV blogsphere. Remarkable.

Infidel Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:04:12 AM
Thanks venu, for your kind words.Muneer, It is really good that you started reading Md's biography. I hope you will learn something there and will come to the blogs with some substance as Venu described you in the best manner "all sound and fury but no substance".And muneer, don't forget to read that muhammad was a pedophile who bonked little ayesha at 9. You can have hadith numbers from my last blog. Best of luck for your knowledge gaining, hopefully truth also.

muneerudeen Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:52:34 AM
SanjibRead the comments on Sanjibs They lived happily frog blog and read the comments of those same guys on a blog called ISRAEL SHOWS THE WAY & you decide WHO the people really are.They profess secularism BUT are rabid Hindutva preachers. Please recognize those wolves' in Sheeps clothing .At leaset we profess our pride in ISLAM BUT they say ALL Dharmas are the same and privately follow their Hindutva agenda.

K.Venugopal Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:30:24 PM
Dear Muneerka, You profess pride in Islam which is intolerant of other religions and I profess pride in Hinduism which accepts all religions. History has shown that when Hindus swayed the world, the world reached the pinnacle of culture, but when Islam swayed the world, the world was blood drenched.