Hindu Muslim dialogue Part VIII

Sunday, September 10, 2006
The discussion continues, after a pause - Ruzan Shah-Venu
Dear Venu u r rigid.

Dear Ruzan Shah,

Thank you for your response to my posting “Muslims doing pooja, much less reciting Vande Mataram, is not un-Islamic”

You say I am being rigid. I am not being rigid; I am only trying to see the logic of things. I do not think, when we communicate in written language, anything other than logic can direct the course of the discussion.

I shall retain your response intact and colour my response in red so that we have at hand our flow of thoughts.

I am a muslim & I know what is universal brotherhood.

I am not questioning that you are a Muslim, that’s something between you and Allah. But the universal brotherhood you claim to know, if based on Islam, is illogical because Islam propounds the theory of Kafir and if I am not mistaken, a Kafir is one who does not accept Islam to be his religion. The celebrated verse in the Quran, where it says “Onto you your religion and onto me my religion”, unfortunately did not develop into a culture that accepted that there are many paths to God but led to the attitude “mine is the true religion and if you are not joining it, then go the hell your way”. This is evidenced in Islam’s greatest display – at the Hajj in Mecca where only Muslims are allowed. This is the ‘universal brotherhood’ that is on display – the brotherhood of only the believers.

Its for all the mankind & not only for muslims.

I am glad you recognize that the Quran is for all mankind and not just for Muslims. I too recognize that it is part of mankind’s heritage. Therefore it gives me a right to seek to understand and explain it from the Hindu viewpoint (or rather a Hindu’s viewpoint, that is, my own viewpoint).

So it will be better if you stop twistings facts. I know my religion better than you my friend.

Not just your religion but mine too. Its for all mankind, remember? (I know I don’t qualify to be a Muslim just because I accept the Quran to be mine also, because according to you folks I have to circumcise and all that.)

Either you concieved it wrong or u just dont want to accept the fact. If thats the case nobody can help you. I dont understand why are you lieing ?

Please don’t call me a liar just because I have a different view on matters.

So me where in Quran it says its only for muslims ? I challenge you.

All religious books are the heritage of all mankind. While for the others Quran is but one of the many sacred scriptures extant in the world, for the Muslims it is the only religious book of any worth. Quran may not be only for Muslims, but Muslims are only for the Quran.

Even in your earlier post how many times you backedoff when asked to prove your mis-conception ? Everytime you gave a standard reply I am not a scholar of Islam.If you dont know Islam than why are you speaking lies ?

Being ignorant is not tantamount to being a liar. I do not remember backing off but I do concede the possibility because I am a mere blogger, not the Shankaracharya!

Ask somebody who knows Islam better or just stop propagating lies.

But tell me, do you know Islam? If there are people who know Islam better than you, does it not mean that you have still more to know about Islam? So, my friend, it’s all a matter of degrees, in knowledge (no pun intended). We live and we learn.

Vasudhev Kutumbakam ok If the whole world is one family why you dont even want to touch dalit ?why ?

Mercifully, the so-call upper castes only kept the so-called lower castes at arms length or even out of sight, but they never massacred them. That is, there was no ethnic cleansing in Hindu history. But that’s not so with Islam. Just as Mohammad cleansed Mecca of idols, the Muslims cleansed communities which, for instance, believed in idol-worship. Where are the idol-worshiping communities in Arabia today? (Don’t include the present generation Hindu expatriates there.)

Dont lie man come on speak the trueth......lol I know Hindus never get tired of talking about vasudhev kutumbakam but in reality they never practice it its a hypocracy my friend.

Surprise, my friend. The Hindus are the only people in history who spread their inclusive culture in peace around the globe. It was the Hindu culture of learning that the Greeks picked up and later transmitted to the Arabs, who passed it much later in history back to the Europeans, who had long since lost it. Ironically, it was the Islamic culture of exclusiveness (not a dot of the Quran shall change stuff) that was the greatest cause of shattering of this Vasudeva Kutumbakam vision in the world. But in today’s world, when Hinduism’s vision of acceptance of multiple cultures is a beacon light to world unity, Vasudeva Kutumbakam will become a rallying banner across the world.

Like they never forget to mention that all converted muslims were hindus originally if so why u are killing them ?

That the vast majority of Muslims are children of converted forefathers is a fact. Hindus are not killing Muslims. Though only 20% of the population, the Muslims in India are safer than the Muslims in Pakistan. Bombs go off in mosques as routine there, whereas Malagaon is an exception in India. Maybe Pakistan does not want the Muslims of India to feel so safe and it might therefore be they who have begun targeting mosques in India too.

Who you are fooling around with ? Indeed some of them were hindus but then why they converted to Islam ? why ? You know better than me Venu.

They converted to Islam only because there was freedom to do so. If there were freedom in Saudi Arabia, then I am sure if somebody like Sathya Sai Baba goes there, thousands will become his disciples. Why, there are many Arabians who are already disciples of Hindu gurus but because of the atmosphere in Arabian countries, it is largely kept under wraps.

Why u guys never discussed pain & suffering & exploitation & cruelty inflicted on the dalit brothers by ur ancestors ?

Pain and suffering all humans go through. But exploitation and cruelty are phases different groups seem to go through at different times in different parts of the world. They are a recurring phenomenon in the world – only the communities and the perpetrators change. What about, for instance, the slave trade famous in Arabian history? Much of the social flaws have been corrected from within the Hindu community itself. But it will take some more time for Islam to correct its greatest flaw – insisting that it is the only valid expression of Truth. From this view has resulted much of history’s bloodshed. The Dalits have lived to tell the tale, for they were no enemies of the Hindus – they were and are the mainstay of the Hindus. But have the ‘dalits’ of Islam (the unfortunate ones who did not abandon their religion for Islam) survived? No, they were Islam’s enemies and have either been forcibly converted to Islam or killed. Consider the partition of India, which resulted in the death of lakhs of people, all because Muslims insisted that Hindus and Muslims are separate nations – the two nation theory.

If u have no guts to accept the trueth u better keep quiet You are the people who preach one thing & practice another,

This accusation is more apt for the Muslims, for we see during the Eids, in the name of Allah the most merciful, massacre of goats in their millions. Preaching peace but not for the animals!

well no wonder coz u guys r so obsessed with changing expressions like 33 crore....lol

To be expressive is to be alive and Hinduism has been alive the longest on this planet and will continue to last long. Islam, unfortunately, is today the terrorist fount of the world (because of the way the Mullahs interpret it). It is, thus, surely not going to survive in its present form. Await a ganging up of the rest of the world against it.

These kind of intellectual bankruptcy is the root cause of ur frustration

I at least am not frustrated. Only someone who has a sense of lack feels frustrated. I have no sense of lack because I have dipped into the Vedanta philosophy. But then what do you know about Vedanta?

so dont blame muslims for that sickness my friend. If anybody is responsible for this turmoil thats ur own karma,

Ruzan Shah, what have you done? You bring up the subject of karma. It’s a big subject, which Islam has given a total go-by. We will discuss it some other day. Inshallah!

well about time to take a holy dip in sacred water... wow what a simple solution for all those gigantic sins.

Just like bringing Zam Zam water back home from Mecca?
11:46:53 AM
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